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CONFIRMED LINE-UP: United vs Derby

  • September 25, 2018

Scott Patterson

Scott is the editor of RoM and has a season ticket at Old Trafford. He writes for The Mirror and Red News. He started The Republik of Mancunia in March 2006. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter.

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VIDEO: Pogba and Mourinho’s falling out

232 Comments

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Bryan_Robson September 26, 2018
Zana

My only association with Alice in Wonderland is the fact that I once dated a girl named Alice!

Never read the book and always thought the movie(s) were weird! lol
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Danizizu September 26, 2018
Going through the thread makes me wonder what sort of fan base you lot are. If anyone has to be shown the exit,it should be Pogba. For all the hype he has produced zero results. The manager has done his best to contain him up till now and I'm afraid he cannot do more for him. Again, Player Power cannot be condoned at a club the stature of United. No player will be lorded over the manager. If Pogba cannot play football and wants to blame the manager for his inadequacies then he is at the wrong club. It is as simple as that.
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Hendrix knightsmith September 26, 2018
Danizizu,

And what about the rest of his signings ?

Both should go.

I've followed United for 65 years, and mark my words Mourinho is the worst signing we have ever made.

He is a virus that is spreading through the club.

He just cannot be allowed to do any more damage.

There is one person, and one person alone who is to blame for all this mess.

His man managment is atrocious , the way he treated the Doctor at Chelsea speaks about his character .

And I'm not sticking up for Pogba either I agree with you about that .

And please don't refer to us as "you lot "
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Danizizu September 26, 2018
Hendrix, I apologize for my choice of words.
My whole point is before the manager is relieved of his duties, recalcitrant players have to be dealt with. If not they will do same when another manager comes in.
Bryan_Robson September 26, 2018
Just watched some highlights from the Liam Miller tribute game.....That was very heart felt as was seeing some proper legends in action..

On a side note, what is David May thinking with that belly of his!! Damn lol
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Zana September 26, 2018
Hendrix

Nice place to grow my friend, I believe there are many cheshire cats there as well :)
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Zana September 26, 2018
Bryan

All good mate, judging by your good sense of humor and persona I would say you would actually enjoyed the movie.
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Bryan_Robson September 26, 2018
Zana

Everyone around me actually loves Alice in Wonderland so I suppose its a matter of taste...

I am more of a Game of Thrones type of person. You know, have sex with her then chop her head off!!!

Trev

To what 'lot' do we belong? There seems to be quite a few 'lottness' going about and one needs to know which 'lot' is he standing on, or is it sitting? Not sure
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gra mar September 26, 2018
better than chopping her head off and then having sex I suppose
it would give you another hole though....
Hendrix knightsmith September 26, 2018
Bryan,

Just heard a rumour that Jeremy Corbyn is going to be our new manager
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gra mar September 26, 2018
@Danizizu

'us lot' want a team that functions properly, playing effective football and displaying all the intensity and passion that playing for United should mean.

What's clear as day is that the manager is incapable of providing that. Week in week in, insipid performances where the manager bemoans our lack of intensity, poor play, mistakes. Nothing is getting better, it is getting worse.

Would you get rid of one of our best players who might not be to everyones taste but who is contributing as much as anyone or would you get rid of the manager the orchestrator all of our problems?

At United Mourinho is squeezing oranges and getting lemon juice. We are
a lot better than what we are showing.

Pogba is doing us a favour as a club by speaking out. It should be a wake up call to those in power that what Mourinho is doing is leading the club into mid table mediocrity and diluting our status in the game. A player won't take down a club. A manager can and is.

We used to have players with balls, Robson, Hughes, Ince, Keane, Styles, Foulkes players went out and played hard, fought hard and drank hard, loved the club and understood what it meant to play for United.
Not one in our current squad comes close to that. Fellaini might be the only one who has a bit of battle and character about him.

With a bunch of underperformering spineless players and an inept manager who has lost his way the future is very very bleak.
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Dwayne O Linn September 26, 2018
Well said
Danizizu September 26, 2018
As good as Roy Keane, RVN and Beckham were, SAF let them go when they challenged him. You know why? Yes, I dont have to answer that.
It is true the team has not performed to the levels expected and the manager must take the blame. This does not warrant players (Pogba) disrespecting the manager in public. Once the club allows that we are doomed.
Hendrix knightsmith September 26, 2018
Gra mar,

I agree.

I've seen it all before.

You're too young to remeber the famous last owrds.

"We're too good to go down"

But all banter aside I have a feeling that Jose is not well. He is showing the symptoms of heading towards a breakdown .

As much as I dislike him, I hope this isn't the case
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N_N September 26, 2018
Trev, his eyes at the end of the match , in the interview looked like he is about to breakdown. The frustration and stress has broken him.

I do feel very sorry for him, because I actually see him trying to install passion, belief and a system that in theory could work, has worked in the past and has won trophies and titles.

But its at the point now that the players clearly don’t believe in him or what he is trying to do... or potentially just can’t do what he wants.

It would take a miracle to turn it around, which personally I don’t see happening. Its only a matter of time before he is sacked... someone else will come in, hopefully spark/re ignite some enthusiasm and then we have another clear out come summer.

To say Jose is shit or Pogba is shit or tactics are shit, is just wrong in my opinion. Its all just a case of major incompatibility.

Mourinho is ultimately responsible for not finding a different way to get this team working and therefor has to go. Losing to Brighton, Derby, drawing to Wolves, 3-0 to Spurs is unacceptable. Irregardless of luck or individual error or near misses or passion or whatever.
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WeAreUnited September 26, 2018
N_N
well said!
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gra mar September 26, 2018
@Danizizu - it's not as simple as that.

Keane was well past his best, We'd gotten 10 years out of Beckham who wanted away and we got a massive fee for him. RvN - 5 seasons of him in his prime. Ferguson had done it at United and proved himself at the club, over and over and over.

Mourinho has only proved that he is either past it or not suited to the club.
He can wave 3 fingers around all he likes and live off past glories. What is present and very true
is that at United his tenure has been disastrous.

Pogba is here two seasons and coming into his prime and you want to let him go because he says what everyone is thinking and is crying out for?
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Mobi September 26, 2018
Neither Mourinho nor Pogba can stay at our club.. no chance.. mourinho has more blame on his shoulders than Pogba but Pogba is still to blame..
Get the pair of them out asap..

It's not only Pogbas comments in the media, it's the fact that he has been rubbish ever since he came here, it's his agent being a prick, it's the fact that the team and the players are always having to adjust to suit the needs of Pogba yet he never performs!

Without Pogba we could get the best out of another 2/3 midfielders/attackers.. Lingard can play in the middle, someone else can have a free role..
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Mobi September 26, 2018
Hendrix
I said it last year, Mourinho is the worst signing Manchester United have made in their entire history..

I got ridiculed, and I still will for what I believe but I am 100% convinced Moyes was better for us than Mourinho is.. the only silver lining to this is once a manager fails at united their career is pretty much over so José after he gets the sack will be done for and deservedly so!

I mean for goodness sake, Moyes had the worst start as champions (until surprise, surprise, mourinho broke the record) yet he still managed to agree deals for Shaw, Herrera and Kroos.. you can bet your house, with 2/3 years he'd have rebuilt.. he'd do better with the current team..
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WeAreUnited September 26, 2018
sorry mate but talk about exaggeration

every time someone puts Moyes and better in the same sentence. It makes the comment invalid lol
sorry but that is when the problem started giving him the chance.
but you do you mate! like you said we're not here trying to change our minds, but cmon now.
Mobi September 26, 2018
N_N

I don't feel sorry for him one bit! He deserves every bit of failure he's going to get! Passion? Belief? Those are two things we have absolutely none of in our squad and he's the reason for that! He took the life and soul out of our club! He's the one who stifled the attacking talents of our players!

And if he's actively trying to use the system he used in the past he's the biggest fool on the planet and should walk out of the door and compensated us! His system broke down a long time ago! The game left him behind, and rather than evolve he's trying to implement that here? Ridiculous right?

Mourinho is the architect of his own downfall! He screwed himself and the club in the process!
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Mobi September 26, 2018
Compensate*
ifeanyiumeweni September 26, 2018
Mobi I won't get rid of any player until they've been tested under an attacking minded manager. On Moyes being better than Jose I don't know about that but I don't know that he's had a better and fitter squad than our last two managers so judging their performances equally isn't fair.
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ifeanyiumeweni September 26, 2018
I do know*
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Mobi September 26, 2018
Ifeanyi
Yes another manager needs to test them but he needs time for that, which is why seeing as our season is already over, bring someone in and give them this season as a free pass.. by the summer they should know who they want to keep and who they want to go..

All through last season I was embroiled in a debate over whether it's the manager or the players and I backed the players 100%.. but I also warned, the longer mourinho stayed the more likely it'd be that some of the players regressed beyond the point of return.. and I fear it's happening now..
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Mobi September 26, 2018
WAU
For me personally, the embarrassment now is more than it was then.. the anger towards the current manager is more than it was against the previous one.. the depression in the era of the special one is worse than the depression in the era of the chosen one.. better players and more players are underperforming due to José Mourinho than players did under David Moyes.. the dive we're taking now under the management of Mourinho is steeper than the one we took under Moyes..
If mourinho stays until April we will be below 7th and you can take this to the bank!

Peace my friend..
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WeAreUnited September 26, 2018
I must disagree wholeheartedly but is great that you probably now understand me even better cause im understanding you, so its great having a good debate / discussion

peace!
N_N September 26, 2018
Mobi, I am talking from a humanitarian point of view, seeing a man buckle under that sort of pressure and stress to looking like he is about to pop is not something I would wish upon anyone. Especially not the person that is still in charge of my team.

That aside, I am not saying he is doing the “exact” same thing as previously in terms of tactics or style, but his style of management in general (eg players) has worked before and will work again.

It is possible in life to say something just didn’t work out, without being bitter and part ways without hate.

He has been talking about players effort and passion for the best part of year. So its not like he doesn’t know what is lacking with this team of players... but as YOU pointed out last year, he is ultimately responsible for motivating them and gelling them together, and that’s why he will be sacked.

You choose to back the players 100% that’s up to you, but they have just as much part to blame as Mourinho or Woody, it was just a shit combination of personnel on all fronts imo. For some players to be payed what they are and wear the UTD shirt and lack passion is unforgivable for me.

A good example of how his management worked was Shaw, Lingard and even Fellaini.

A good example of how it didn’t work is Pogba & Martial.

Unfortunately its not a one size fits all system and player power seems to have triumphed.
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Mark_Reid September 26, 2018
Firstly why does the board back Mou but not give him any money in the transfer market?
Secondly Mou has lost his Midas touch.
Thirdly Pogba is a spoiler his attitude affects others, as he is our supposed talisman on the field his greasy agent has his head turned looking for another big pay.
I don’t think Mou will be fired until it’s clear we arecout of Champions league contention.
And when coz it’s gonna happen we bring in another manager how many of these players are going to stay.
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Hendrix knightsmith September 26, 2018
Mark,

On their performances I would say very few of them would be any great loss if they went .

Although being in charge the buck stops with Mourinho , but I think a few other people in the club should take a look at themselves also .

The lack of pride some of them show is nothing short of shameful .

We have all worked for people that we don't like, but that is no excuse for not giving your best .

When the going gets tough, our lot just cave in, most are not fit the wear the shirt of our club.

They should buckle down, take some responsibility for a change, and give the supporters something to be proud of.

Can it really be that difficult ?
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Mark_Reid September 26, 2018
Hendrix you would think not,all they have to do is play football.
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Danizizu September 26, 2018
https://twitter.com/ramolica/status/1044913391167578112?s=12

Just this morning
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Bryan_Robson September 26, 2018
Trev

Well said....I'll get the whip
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N_N September 26, 2018
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11509079/paul-pogba-can-never-be-bigger-than-man-utd-and-jose-mourinho-right-to-strip-vice-captaincy-says-liam-rosenior

Oh and I forgot Fuck Raiola too
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Hendrix knightsmith September 26, 2018
Danizizu.

Both will be gone shortly..

Pogba to put in storming performances against Juventus ?

I must admit, I didn't realise they trained.

You wouldn't think so with their performances on the pitch
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N_N September 26, 2018
Thing about Pogba is he really is world class, I mean he was instrumental in a World Cup winning side, and you just don’t sell those pmayers unless there is no alternative.

But we cannot let him disrupt and disrespect the badge by thinking he is bigger than the badge or let that fat fuck agent create uncertainty and destabilising rumours... what a mess
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Mark_Reid September 26, 2018
Gra Mar 2 xtra holes.
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gra mar September 26, 2018
you're one sick fucker Mark Reid
Mark_Reid September 26, 2018
N-N I’d say Pogba is world class when surrounded by world class players,he’s not one to lift a team ala Messi or Ronaldo.
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Ezzerguru September 26, 2018
Not sure why so many of us are focusing much on Pogba. The guy didn't even play last night.

The thing we should be concerned about is that we got outplayed by a championship side with a novice manager that used to play under our own manager. Lampard loves Mourinho but hasn't based Derby's game on what Mourinho taught him. What little I saw of the game Derby played football light years ahead of what we've produced under Mourinho. How long has Lampard been at that team with those players.

Those who think it's not largely down to how Mourinho coaches and instructs his players to play are kidding themselves and really do not have a grasp of how competitive football works. If you're coached to play shit guess what you'll play shit. If you're a good player coached to play shit, surprise surprise, you'll look shit.

Don't get distracted by anything other than the facts. Forget all the side stories.

We were beaten at home by a novice manager of a championship side that played better football than us. Fact!
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Mark_Reid September 26, 2018
Ezzerguru true mate,when the dust settles we were outplayed by Derby.
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Hendrix knightsmith September 26, 2018
Ezzerguru,

Derby were indeed the better side, the far better side.

We were outplayed, it is as simple as that.

And let's not be surprised if the same thing happens on Saturday.

Personally I would like to see the League Cup (or whatever it's called) to be used as a platform to see how the non first team squad perform, and with someone like Carrick , McKenna, or even Sbragia in charge.

Bit late for that now obviously
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Mobi September 26, 2018
I refuse to accept Shaw is one of Mourinhos success.. I wholeheartedly believe he would've been as good last year as he is now had Mourinho stopped bullying him and given him a chance.. in fact I remember him playing well on the rare chance he was afforded last season but then thrown into the abyss once again..

How's Fellaini a success? He's been playing as good as he has always done.. just because people are starting to warm to it now doesn't mean it's just started now.. he played as well as he is doing now under Moyes and LVG but people always needed a scapegoat and he was the unfortunate one..

Lingard, every man and his dog could see he needed to play in the middle.. all credit to mourinho he actually did it and Lingard was playing the best football of his career.. and then Mourinho decided to tear it apart by signing Sanchez, changing his formation and sticking Lingard on the right.. (killed 2 birds with one stone).. so now Lingard is terrible and who's fault is that? Since January, the only time Lingard played well was the world cup when he was in the middle..

And Mourinhos management hasn't only been a failure with Pogba and Martial.. Rashford, Herrera, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Matic, Smalling, Bailly have all gotten worse.. you could argue Lingard and Sanchez should be in there too.. none of his signings have worked out..

We all know Mourinho wanted nothing more than to win the treble playing his awful tactics with Young, Fellaini, McTominay e.t.c in his team.. (the ones we all say are average) so he could tell us all of how wrong we are and how he's a genius and the only person on this earth with a brain..

Yes I hope he has a long and healthy life and I hope he's happy and lives anywhere he wants with his family and friends around him.. truth be told once he's out of the OT door I'll gladly put him behind me and try to forget his very existence but speaking purely from a footballing perspective I hope he gets everything he deserves for screwing us and turning us into a miserable laughing stock.. he doesn't deserve another job in management!

As for Woodward and the players.. I can't blame them.. maybe just a little.. what is Woodward's fault? Not having a clue about anything football related? Backing mourinho fully? Just doing what he was hired for which is to make money for glazers? I have no problems with Ed whatsoever.. he's done brilliantly for our club.. all I want is someone to replace him in footballing matters..

When it comes to players I don't blame them one bit for losing their passion.. mourinho has been eating away at it day by day and has successfully eroded it all by now.. in fact he managed it a long time ago.. it's all easy to say something in the media but if you can't back it up it's useless.. I can say all I want that my team needs to get down the wings more and put decent crosses in, but if I'm telling my players to go direct then who's fault is it?

Mourinho can talk about a lack of passion all he wants but the fact is, it's him who sets us up to play deep, play safe, contain the opposition and not to fly forward..
You can see the players are frustrated and they want to attack as we saw with martial last night shouting at those behind him to come forward and press and as we saw with Pogba telling the media that the players need to attack.. watch our games.. take the Pogba mistake against wolves.. there's no movement, nobody for him to pass to and that resulted in naivety, poor awareness and a goal conceded.. which led to 2 points dropped..

Ultimately however, I agree with the opinion that a lot of our players need to go too.. some of them will never recover and won't ever get back to a good enough standard now.. I guarantee we'll need a lot more than just a RW and a CB or two..
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Mobi September 26, 2018
Danizizu
Should we even be surprised anymore?

Ezzerguru
It's exactly what I was saying last night..
Only difference between our comments is you picked up a brilliant point which I missed..

Lampard loves mourinho yet didn't set his team up the way mourinho does.. that says everything..

Btw, what sort of a manager comes out and says when it comes to Jones or Bailly you know you're gonna lose? (I'm paraphrasing)

Way to motivate the team.. and then people question why our players have lost everything? This clown uses every opportunity to put them down.. the players have been down for months now and José does everything he can to kick them whilst they're there..
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gra mar September 26, 2018
Absolutely agree, to say that about Jones and Bailly is plain wrong.
You'd swear they'd never kicked a ball in their lives.
Hendrix knightsmith September 26, 2018
Mobi,

That was part of SAF's genius.

He made players believe they were better than they were.

And got the results
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Bryan_Robson September 26, 2018
Apologies if this has been already posted.........Still very bad viewing from the training ground

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11509239/jose-mourinho-and-paul-pogba-have-frosty-exchange-at-man-utd-training
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Hendrix knightsmith September 26, 2018
gra mar,

Have some of those players kicked a ball , surely you jest ?
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denislawking September 26, 2018
We were better off under Louis Edwards
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ifeanyiumeweni September 26, 2018
I saw the video on twitter where it seemed Jose and Pogba where arguing in training and at about 00:29 it seemed like Jose told him to "get out". People blaming Pogba needs to know that this is a pattern at every big club he goes to and those talking tradition should know that we screwed all that up when we hired him in the first place.
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