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LIVE BLOG: Fulham 3 - 0 United FT

December 19, 2009

Scott is the editor of RoM and has a season ticket at Old Trafford. He started The Republik of Mancunia in March 2006. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter or @R_o_M7 on Instagram.

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343 Comments

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Costas December 19, 2009

Other teams play with the spine of their team almost every week, yet at United we haven't done that for months and we have got used to it. Not to mention how much we have missed someone Owen Hargreaves.

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MG December 20, 2009

Okay I've seen the first goal - More than Scholes loosing it it's been taken away from him because Murphy has anticipated the pass from defence extremely quickly - that assumes to me that Scholes thought he had ample time to turn and play the ball - I can't blame him for that

Yes although Scholsey did have a give away soon after - luckily nothing happened

Second goal was bad defending all around - Ritchie could have even batted the shot down - man that is inexperience - if Johnny Evans was there that goal would never have happened

Third goal again chest down and bang - no anticipation - players around not defenders

How many of these goals that were scored against us and even last week from Young's cross - we just don't concede them - unfortunate but it's happened so chin up and yes I think we didn't attack because I think they had an inkling they were going to get slaughtered.

I hope they all get together and fight back - it was way too freaky what happened - and of course no defenders meant that Fulham exposed an aerial weakness..

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Welbz19 December 20, 2009

@rewind think welbeck is mate but as a center forward he's always gonna struggle on the wing! Really think welbeck will be a special player

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Dave Mack December 20, 2009

Rewind ... As much as you think Red C's comment about "when we're playing well it doesn't look like we need a defence" that's the whole point! We simply don't have a defence at the moment and it's because of that that we look so fragile going forward.

When the confidence is flowing, and United are looking invinceable winning 4-0 etc ....it's because the defence is quietly doing it's job, often un-noticed, and players like Rooney, Berbatov, Valencia etc can simply focus on scoring goals and making them for others.

Also, in United's case you can't ignore the impact an attacking Evra has. With Vida, Rio, Brown, Evans, O'Shea, Neville and the like lining up beside him he feels alot happier about pushing forward.

You have to accept that our crisis at the back is effecting the whole team and useless and unfair to pick on individual performances and / or team formations and suggest they are the reasons we lost today.

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Costas December 20, 2009

@Dave Mack:

Good point. It's not easy going into battle knowing that your back isn't covered properly. Take today's game for instance. Until the Murphy goal, i thought we were settling down and starting to get control of the game. We concede the goal, and the whole team is shell schoked. And the same thing happened last season too. Murphy scores the penalty and for the rest of the first half Fulham are all over us. After the break we got hold of the game even with 10 men. Today, i thought that we would do the same, but more bad defending gifts them a 2 goal lead 20 sec after the break. Game over.

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Xyth December 20, 2009

In five matches that we lost this season, we failed to score. Doesn't this fact say a lot? Yes we are struggling with injuries at the back, but clearly everything is not down to the defense.

I would rather play reserve team central defenders, than senior midfield players out of position. It was embarrassing how easy Fulham scored 2nd and 3rd goals today.

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arijc December 20, 2009

@ Costas
I agree with you about Edwin, Rio and Vida being match winners and that we are missing the spine of our team. It is after all a team game. It would be very easy to blame everything on the defense, but the lack of creativity and inability to score against the better organized teams has been evident for quite some time.
I have never seen a United team as clueless in the attacking half as this team has been for the past few games. I want Berba to succeed as much as any United fan, but he can be so frustrating, brilliant at times and pathetic at others. Its unfair to criticize Rooney because of his overall work rate and he can't be expected to carry United in every game. I don't expect much more from Owen. This is a team in transition.
The quick and expensive solution, in my opinion, is Villa, Silva and Kjaer.
The other solution, that Sir Alex obviously prefers, is to invest in the youth. Hence, Playing Carrick and Fletcher in defense is not a solution. I would have been happier if we had played and lost with the likes of Cory Evans at the heart of the defense. That would have shown that we have a plan for the future. Playing a 3-5-2 system with the only established defender Evra playing in the midfield is crazy. If we have the faith in these youngsters then start with the likes of Obertan and Eikrem. The midfield is certainly lacking creativity and maybe these younger players can inject a bit of creativity and passion.
I know the regular contributors of this blog would consider this blasphemy, but I would say Sir Alex got it badly wrong today. The team management has to take the blame for the insipid display today.

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rooney the new king December 20, 2009

I have not seen the match was out all day, saw a late showing of avatar, it is truly shocking what is going on at united. can someone tell me how bad the top sides have become, liverpool losing is no suprise but what in the hell has happened to united.

man utd a phew years back we were supposed to set a new era of total success but with certain signings and players leaving it is not working out, united would tear sides apart with such a venom attack with pace and awesome on the counter back in 2007, to a side now that has become powder puff in attack, crippled at the back and weak in the center, fergie has lost hope in berbatov which is a shame.

the sides attack which was built on ronaldos pace and power is now looking toothless and it has come home to roost, it cant be any suprise but certain players are not steping up to the plate and why isnt obertan not giving the starts he deserves. When anderson is on the left we are fucked on the wings, especially the left we miss giggs invention which we have benifited from.

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Costas December 20, 2009

@rooney the new king:

Hey mate. Looks like the developments at Shity kind of overshadowed us today. Thankfully. I don't have much sympathy for Mark Hughes these days, but the Arabs treated him like crap.

Anyway. Today's game was a long time coming in my opinion. If the Villa game showcased our problems in front of goal, this one exposed our defensive woes when Vidic, Rio and co are missing. Fergie played a 3-5-2 today with Evra covering the whole left side. Ando was one of the 3 central midfielders. To be honest, United never looked like scoring, but the goals were way too soft.

United have dominated for 3 years now and in my opinion, in England you are very special if you can last that long. There's a reason why no one has won 4 in a row. I remember the 01-02 season when we went for a 4th consecutive championship and it reminds me of this one in some ways. Leaking goals very easily, losing plenty of games before Christmas and not showing enough determination in big games. At least that season scoring goals wasn't an issue. I think that we will be able to make a more fair assesment about how limited and predictable our attacking approach is, once we get a healthy back 5. For what it's wort though, i thought Ritchie did very well.

And that's it for me. I have to go to sleep and hopefully visions of Zamora and Gera won't haunt me.Night.

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rooninho December 20, 2009

just thought this might cheer some people up, and it's probably old news by now, but citeh sacked hughes.

i don't know why, but i'm actually happy for the man. maybe it's because i can start seeing him as sparky again and not as "mark hughes- the twat who manages shitty."

enormous fan of sparky growing up (can anyone volley a ball better than sparky?), hopefully this will go a long way in repairing the bridge he burnt with the united supporters, when he became their manager.

anyways, what a shit day of football. tried not to read too many posts after the loss out of fear of all the knee jerk whinging and player slagging, but i couldn't resist. the usual suspects around here have been bang on in their analysis of the game, our injury situation, and team performance.

chin up mates! forget the glory hunters, we are united through the good and bad! we just need to ride out this wobble, get a bus load of players healthy, and trust that fergie knows how to fix the situation.

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rooney the new king December 20, 2009

@ Costas well if players are on top of their game still in their prime they are still hungry then the titles will continue to be won.

I just think the decline of our defenders in terms of their fitness, the signings like anderson nani hargreaves berbatov have not worked out, in terms of how we expected a phew years back.
which is of many reasons why united look so out of sorts add ronaldo leaving, even for united that is one to many problems to overcome.

in 01/02 season united lost the hunger that is the big difference. united had the players but lost the hunger, I just feel now we dont have enough in some areas, and we so desperatly need another winger and a striker, because relying on rooney is really starting to show when berbatov and owen are not reliable enough and no one can deny that.

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denton davey December 20, 2009

Grumbling about the formation is usually a sign that the grumbler has some sort of far-away look in his mind. Dreaming of olden times. Nostalgic for days gone bye.

But, for what it's worth, UTD almost always play some version of a 3-5-2 system because it's only with the greatest latitude that one can consider Patrice Evra to be a defender. He is usually higher up the pitch than the winger on his side of the field. Of course, when the "3" are a healthy, fit, and sharp Rio/Vidic/Brown or O'Shea then that's three central defenders; being backed up by a quality keeper like Edwin doesn't hurt, either.

But, as they say, that was then and this is now - and "now" might be a vision of UTD's future with a chronically-unfit Rio and Wesley, and an aged Edwin. Vidic's stay in M/C is also uncertain despite the spin he sends out about loving the rain and his wife's shopping restrictions.

It would appear that SAF has tried to work out some contingency plans to deal with these eventualities - signing Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves, Berbatov, and Valencia were supposed to provide cover for the departures of Ronaldo and the retirements of Scholes and Giggs. I am a fan of the ability of both Anderson and Nani - but neither one has been very consistent and, to be truthful, neither one has massively improved in the last three years. I am not a fan of Berbatov - despite his subtle, silky skills, he's the wrong partner for Wayne Rooney. And, I blow hot-and-cold about Valencia - he's predictable and one-footed. Owen Hargreaves is just a terribly unfortunate guy but we've seen flashes of what he would add to the team IF he could regain his fitness. So, not one of these guys has set the team on fire and for that reason I think that SAF's "contingency plans" have not worked especially well even though - and this is a real contradiction - the team has had great success in the past three years.

The success of the past three years has largely been built on the earlier period of transition when Rooney and Ronaldo and Carrick and Tevez and Vidic and Evra and Carrick and Edwin were brought in to replace Ruud, Keane-o, PhilNev, Nicky Butt, and Beckham, while providing competition for Silly and Heinze.

After farting about with the likes of Bellion, DjembaDjemba, and Kleberson, SAF got things sorted in 2005-6 and that team went on to a series of great seasons. But that's now coming to an end - SAF's "teams" seem to have a life-cycle of about three years and the departure of Ronaldo obviously signalled a new period of transition even if the post-Ronaldo Lads are scoring more often - but they are leaking goals and not scoring consistently.

It seems to me that behind the terrible injury crisis in the back four and the appalling lack of consistency among the strikers, deeper "structural" problems are now coming to the surface. A few weeks ago it seemed that the ten fixtures in December and January looked like dead-certs but UTD have conspired to lose to both Aston Villa and Fulham - not exactly Puskas and De Stefano, eh ? I suppose that if - somehow, against the odds and defying all logic - the 'ammers can beat the RentBoyz tomorrow that the EPL-table won't look so bad but that would be a deceptive appearance.

As I'm waiting for my dinner, I can just imagine a NEWUnited beginning the 2010/2011 season without significant contriubtions from Edwin, Rio, Wesley, Vidic, RedNev, LittleMikey and Dimmy, Scholes, and Giggs even if some of those guys might be in uniform but they (i.e., Edwin, RedNev, Scholes, and Giggs) are getting really old and they are not exactly likely to be getting any better. Rio and Wesley and Owen Hargreaves are a niggle away from being declared "unfit to continue" while Little Mikey and Dimmy are now living on borrowed time.

If you plan for the worst - even while hoping for the best - then the future might even be "now". So, all this talk about a 2009/2010 being a "transition" might be more serious than any of us would like to contemplate.

I'm trying to look on the bright side but the dulcet tones of my bride is informing me that my dinner's ready so I have to sign off - for now.

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King Eric December 20, 2009

Rewind - Reece Brown and Evans are injured aren't they? They would struggle mate in a high pressure game at Craven Cottage.Different league to the reserves. Against an inform Zamora as well. Fergie is looking for experience. Fucking hell man, bit harsh on Carrick. He has done ok.

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King Eric December 20, 2009

Costas - Spot on mate. For the first twenty minutes United DID control the game. Were unlucky not to get a penalty actually after a push on Valencia and it could have been a very different game. Even Trevor Francis said "No matter how many players United are missing it is still the same, pass and move". We looked comfortable. Its a funny old game. One question. Why the fuck does Danny YSB Murphy always play a blinder against United? He is a decent mid fielder to be fair.

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rooney the new king December 20, 2009

denton davey I think you are spot on, on redcafe.net one topic discused was have we had value for money from hargreaves nani and berbatov the answer is for me no way. the players you have said vds neville brown ferdinand vidic scholes giggs berbatov owen like you said are getting old. do they have a real future in 2 3 years time doubt it, so we need the new generation to step up fast or it is another dry spell for the club if so oh well I can live with it.

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King Eric December 20, 2009

arij - I think we both know mate that Fergie ain't gonna lash out seventy or eighty million on Villa and Silva. And rightly so.

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manchuchu December 20, 2009

From:http://www.mufcweb.com/2009/12/19/united-boss-fails-to-blame-players-after-3-0-defeat/

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson refused to blame his players for the embarrasing 3-0 defeat at Fulham.

“There was a fragility at the back and we couldn’t do anything about that,” he said.

“You have to have sympathy for the players in that respect.

“It’s difficult to play midfielders at centre back and Ritchie de Laet is only 21 years of age. He’s not got the experience yet needed for these type of matches.

“Of course it was a terribly soft goal for the first one and that gave them the platform to build on.

“The goal after half-time took care of us. It was a poor decision by the referee for the third goal.

“We couldn’t get behind Fulham at all and their defence is very well organised and it was a difficult day for us.

“The first goal was important for them but it was a bad one for us. It was an uphill fight after that.

“To concede 20 seconds into the second-half killed the game. We didn’t anticipate that.

“The players are maybe feeling a bit sorry for themselves at the moment because of the situation they’re in.

“But the quality of the football wasn’t as good as it normally is.

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rooney the new king December 20, 2009

King Eric but you cant deny the fact that united need a couple of forwards, like a new winger and a new striker. owen and berbatov are just not reliable enough.

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kel December 20, 2009

I think we need some creativity players like i said a few weeks back. I said we need some players like Giggs ability to find space and pass to win the match. Yesterday prove i am right. There are no one who can pick up the pass. Rooney is not at fault as no one can pass him the ball nicely. Berbatov before injury is good but i guess now he is a bit out of form. Owen is the type of player in the penalty area which can give you goal. He seldom score outside of the penalty area. Scholes was at fault for the first goal but given the fulham strong midfield i thought gibson should be more available in midfield. Without being available in midfield, scholes is given to much task to handle. Sol Campbell i thought was a good signing but Sir Alex said he can't see to buy him and now our defense is leaking goals. I wonder if we still can win any trophies as our team is not strong to compete. Given that all those defenders coming back, they will need several weeks or matches to regain their fitness and form, i wonder if we will get back on form.

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zhixiang December 20, 2009

I hope the best that we can get from yesterday's awful game is to make SAF realise -- when we are depleted and off form in scoring, it's disaster in making..
And make SAF realise we NEED badly to exercise some cheques in January!
I still believe as always, that if MU cannot score, not so much on leaking goals or defenders missing, it's seriously a CRISIS!

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Jack December 20, 2009

we lost today but theres not muCh we can do with the injurys we got and i doubt any other team would be able to cope with 8 defenders out, 2 wingers and a keeper plus there 2 best midfielders in defence, we was doing fine before we got all these injurys, i still think were win the leauge, chelsea are slipping up abit and lose most of there best players in january and i think by the end of january were top, just hope we get some defenders back soon.

p.s king eric where ever you are are you joined to the redcafe mate??? or anyone else on here??

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Jayunited4eva December 20, 2009

Let's just get behind the team.And pray for the injuries to ease and just concentrate on ourselves all the way.

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Ashish December 20, 2009

Sure our defence was poor yesterday but we didn't even create a single chance upfront.Just what does our defensive frailities got to do with creating chances upfront?

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293 December 20, 2009

@Ashish
Defensive frailties suck up the best/experienced midfielders to starve the strikers and hence chances up front.
Though what we really need is a new hero. Either rooney will realise who he is someone else will emerge/be brought. Till then it's just wait and watch.

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mu21 December 20, 2009

I really hate fergie's formation for that match.He seems to favour gibson and scholes.Scholes is shit.He want to play week in and out but he doesnt perform well.I miss the old days where players play despite slight injury.I think ppl like ferdinand is a pussy.He must be scared for his fitness to not to miss the world cup

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Bangladeshi Red December 20, 2009

Over or not, UNITED I STAND, UNITED I LOVE, UNITED TILL I DIE!
i was actually singing with the fans, and jumping, dancing around... there an inspiration. You must think im crazy, but im proud to be a red!

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LucasUTD December 20, 2009

truth be told, we have been VERY poor this whole season. we have alot of defenders injured, but the defensive stability should be back once they return. more worrying however, is the fact that we lack obvious incision and creativity in the final third. it's too predictable right now: pass the ball to the flanks and they swing the crosses in. not to mention we don't have a decent header of the ball in our attack so the crosses and corners are mostly useless. we need a world class attacking midfielder badly.

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jeet December 20, 2009

Good morning/afternoon everbody - nice to back wth a cooler head after yesterday's disappointment . @MG - sorry I cussed you, but I was in an absolute foul mood whole week (my sister is going through a messy divorce), and yesterday's defeat did little to cheer me up. I am not sure how many of today's footballers realize this, but to a lot of fans, their team's performance is one of the little things that keep them going on a depresssing Sunday night.

Read about Hughes - its a bit of a shame you know, bitter rivalries aside, I thought he was a good manager. I think SAF mentioned in one of his interviews, that his sucess was also due to the temperamant of Utd. management over the years, who were patient in their aim to build a lasting legacy. This impatience is such a bad sign of the times - you see the same mentality in business, sports, media and even within families.

About us, here's my frank, neutral assessment:

What is really hitting us is the fact that with the golden generation moving on, the youngsters still aren't ready to take their place. As a natural process, some will fall by the waysisde, that is to be expected. But the ones who show such brilliant promise are not there yet. As I said, fuck Ronaldo, we seem to be dead wthout Giggsy. More than just footballing talent, it is the sheer mental strength that comes out of braving a thousand storms that seems to be mising. One of the frustrating patterns for this season, is that if we score a goal in the first 30 minutes, we usually tear the opposition apart. If we don't, we seem to losse our composure. Prme example - in the ManCity match, what really turned it in our favour, was Giggs stepping up the gears. Nobody, mark my word, abosulutely nobody else (well, maybe apart from Scholes) in the current team would have the composure to pick that pass to Owen in the final minute of injury time. Unfortunately, there is no short term solution to this. We just have to be patient and stick it out. No amount of money can buy what we are missing, and there is very little of interest in the market in any case.

At a more specific level, what we really seem to be lacking is the spark, the extra something. Teams playing us come prepared to put eleven players behind the ball for 70 minutes, and hope to get one smash and grab with a big striker upfront (Carew, Abgonlaor, Bent, Zamora...you know that type). Wth more and more success, it is logical to beleive that teams will make it more difficult for us to unlock their defences. I would imagine that only Giggs and Obertan have that ability in the current team, and well Barba to an extent. I don't know whether that "magic" can be bought or not. At best, such a purchase will help us tide over the current crisis, but the only real solution to our problems seems to be time, and that, unfortunately, cant be bought, as Hughes has discovered.

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porter December 20, 2009

wouldn't call agbonlahor a big striker..

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trevor December 20, 2009

@jeet

Good read fella.

I think Hughes going might be the naivety of the Owners of City why Hughes went.

I have always been a fan of hughes which ever club he managed or played for to some extent!

I can remember the year at school where hughes was bought, I can remember the Goals against Oldham im the Semi Final of the Fa Cup 1991, the Goals against Palace in the Fa Cup final to force a replay and his goals against Barcelona in the Eurpoean cup the following year.

I know some of Hughes signing havent yet gelled or worked out, but on paper i think he has spent their money wisely. I would rather have had Benitez at City he certainly would have wasted most of that and certainly not be as strong as they are now!

Why is city not top of the table or in the top 4?............... Well for me any championship winning team needs consistancy and for a team to reach the consistancy stage they have to become a team! A team of allstars do not become a Team over night!...In a team each player knows where they are supposed to be on the pitch every situation! A team Most players know what their team mates are going to do, Spot their runs instantly, Work together and when the chips are down up their effort! A team bounce back from defeat in the correct way and work harder in the next match!

A team of allstars is no way a team!....I am greatful for the city board cause i feel hughes although nothing special tacticaly as a manger in my eyes. But what he does offer and do well for me is that he organises his players and makes them into a team! Maybe one dymensional, but solid and playing as a team none the less. You give him time and he gets to that stage with the players he has got, he certainly would have made the Top 4.

Now the city Derby!...... Hughes for me added a bit of spice to the city derby! He new what they were about and i think this added to the players motivation!..> Now that he is gone i am not as worried as our previous game! Might be in the head i dont know!

Mancini....... Great! I love nothing less than an Inesperienced manager taking over who doesnt know the premiership!...

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Costas December 20, 2009

I will just say one thing. I hope the rumors about a 5mil pound move for Ben Arfa are rubbish. Of we have money to spend, we should get a defender.

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trevor December 20, 2009

@Costas

What kinda money would you spend on a defender and what value would we get out of him?

Who would want to move?

I am against spending 10 mil on cover just for this season, ok we dont win the league this year but its all about the bigger picture! All teams have building years, we might just have a bad run but we are still in the FA Cup & Champions League! Still alot to play for!

Any defender we buy would just play for 1 to 2 months then sit in our reserves for the next few years what is the point in that!

Get Arfa at 5 mil migth prove a real bargain!.. a few years ago he was hot property! and quoted prices of 10 - 20 mil.

It looks so far that Nani isnt working still has a bit of time left to prove his worth. Obertan looks good and has a chance! Id be happy if we got Arfa to be honest!

We have good strikers, after yesterdays game one thing was obvious was that we did lack a little creativty. Maybe due to low performances i know!

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Costas December 20, 2009

@Trevor:

I don't know if Ben Arfa could help. His case reminds me that of Obertan. He is someone talented, who has lost his way a bit. Maybe Fergie feels that he can reignite his career. I said that a defender should be our priority because the defensive problems don't look like letting up. I think that for 5 million we could bring in someone. I don't know who, but there are always bargains out there. Or maybe even a loan deal like the Larsson one. Something short term that will get us through the season. I wouldn't spend more than 5 illion for cover either.

In January of 04, when Rio got suspended, we made a similar choice. We went for an attacking player(Saha) instead of someone who could replace Rio short term. I remember that Southgate was an option at the time. Even though Saha was a good player for us, at the time it was the wrong choice.

Finally, i think that our attacking will be ok, once there is a solid back 5 behind it. We might not have the flair we had when Ronaldo was here, but United always score...

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Corea December 20, 2009

Costas - Ben Arfa for 5 mln ? I will take it. We are short of left wingers, no ?

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Costas December 20, 2009

Corea: It's a rumor that i have heard in Greece mate. Olympiacos want him, but his agent says no because reportedly United are interested. They even say that Cantona recommended him to Sir Alex. Maybe it's lies that the reporters over here have made up so that they have an excude if he turns down Olympiacos. He is a good player, it's just that our priorities are different.

If we go for cover at left wing, i would like that Di Maria kid. I don't know how much he would cost though. I think Obertan can also help on the left. And that way, maybe Nani can get a game on the right.

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Corea December 20, 2009

Costas - only lefty is Giggsy. Apart from him only right-footed players, mate. You can't call Ben Arfa a cover.

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Costas December 20, 2009

Corea, pure left wingers are hard to find anyway. Apart from Ryan, we didn't have anyone last season either. Ronaldo was good with both feet, but he didn't stay on the wing for too long. However, if a right footed player knows hot to dribble and cut in, then he can be helpful on the left too. Obertan for example.

I remember Ben Arfa from his Lyon days. He was viewed as one of their greatest talents along with Benzema. But i think he has stalled in the last few years. A move to OT could motivate him.

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Altonian December 20, 2009

It bewilders me how people are still blaming the defence for our poor attacking play. Only recently have we really had an injury struck defence, yes we've had injuries earlier in the season but we've still been able to have 4 good defenders playing. Yet for more or less the whole season you cannot compare our attacking play to any of the recent seasons, we just lack that edge, sharpness and threat we've been used to all these years.

As for Ben Arfa, I think he'd definitely be worth a punt, was considered to be a huge emerging talent not so long ago, always used to hear plenty of rumours about him along with Benzema. Although Fergie said he won't be I think Nani will be sold in January, if not definitely the summer. He's rarely even got a place on the bench recently and with Obertan's progress I think we can say bye bye to him.

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rooney the new king December 20, 2009

Costas and that is why valencia is one dimensional, wingers who stay on the wings are so outdated. the best wide players like ronaldo messi ribery all have more veriaty in their game they interchange.

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Rewind December 20, 2009

@ rooney the new king ...."Costas and that is why valencia is one dimensional, wingers who stay on the wings are so outdated. the best wide players like ronaldo messi ribery all have more veriaty in their game they interchange."

Agreed, but what makes him so one dimensional is his inability to use his left foot, I have never seen someone who uses thier right foot in every situation they find themselves in, its criminal and makes Valencia so predictable that I can tell you what he is going to do before he does it!

If I was Sir Alex, I would get the guy training with his left all the time, I cannot believe he has played professional football and trained at. (I would assume decent football academies from a young age) who have allowed him to use his right foot only.

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denton davey December 21, 2009

Rewind: "what makes him so one dimensional is his inability to use his left foot, I have never seen someone who uses thier right foot in every situation they find themselves in, its criminal and makes Valencia so predictable that I can tell you what he is going to do before he does it!"

I'm in total agreement with that - yesterday he had a half-chance to blast it at the goal but shifted the ball onto his right foot = the half-chance was gone and he then passed the ball sideways. Typical.

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the Red C December 21, 2009

Dave Mac, I couldn't disagree with you more mate :)

Seriously, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. What I mean by looking like we don't need a defense when we are playing well is simply that when we are on song, defense starts with the attackers and midfield. We keep the pressure on the other team and we pen them back in their own half.

When we are in that mode, as we have seen many times, we impose ourselves in such a way that even the odd glaring defensive mistake is usually rectified because there are only rare passages of play we are under any consistant pressure and opposing attackers are isolated, having to not only try and make something out of any mistake but are being closed down from all sides. In fact mostly our defenders are usually just tidying up or linking play.When we are playing like that we can afford to put O'Shea in goal for the last 15 minutes, or play with only ten men for the last 5, change the whole defense round from one game to the next - things like that.

Now, of course we have injuries and I appreciate the point that this will affect things but the rest of the team is not functioning as it should be and for me that has been obvious before these injuries have underlined this problem. I am absolutely sure that a United team firing like we were two seasons ago could have played me and you in the back four and we would have got away with it because we would hardly have seen the ball. If you want a more detailed opinion regarding exactly where I think things are wrong, I will give that in a more relevant thread, because I am sure we will have many opportunities to second guess how Sir Alex will put things right and where we feel things are not working out.

But I am sure Dave that things are not entirely right at the moment. I've been watching United for more than 40 years and I learnt to recognise andsense these things, believe me!

Of course the defense is being highlighted now and I too have tried to take comfort from the various opinions that no team could cope with these defensive injuries, But I have been hearing excuses, or reasons we will improve for the whole of this season. Owen needs to get fit, we would have won at Burnley if the team selection had been different, we started with a run of hard games, now we should have a good run until the other side of Christmas, Foster let us down, we are missing Rio, Vidic will sort it out for us, Nani is not doing it, Anderson needs a run of games, we have the two Brazilians when they are fit, Hargreaves will be like a new signing when he comes back, Carrick's not playing well - he must have fell out with Fergie, Berbatov will be a lot better this season...

It goes on and on, but what we all need to say is simple. We are not looking as strong as we did last season and no where near as strong as we were two seasons ago. In that respect it is extremely supprising that we have not brought in the kind of player we expect to replace our older or frequently injured players.

We can't have it both ways. we can't say what fabulous players Ronaldo and Hargreaves are and then accept that we don't find equally good players to replace them, or at least in Hargreaves case an equally good addition because the Hargreaves we bought is lost to United. Although I really hope he manages to play for us, he will never be the same Hargreaves we briefly saw, and he has lost out on two years of development. God knows how good he could have been by now, but that is another story.

Niether can we talk about the obvious looming departures from the first team of Giggs, VDS, Scholes, Neville and now even Rio and then talk about buying players as 'buying our way out of trouble'.

As I said in my original post, too many things seem to be happening at once for my liking. Loss of form. too many injuries, too many vital players talking about retirement, too little activity in finding replacements, too little impact being made from our young hopefuls, too few games where we look and feel in total command, too few goals, too many losses, too big a debt, too many strange and even unacceptable actions in the way our club is doing things, too little activity in the transfer market - regarding the normal rebuilding and strengthening strategy, too much activity in the business and marketing areas (some have said, in regards to becoming far too commercial and much less the family club we once were), too little info from the Glazers regarding the debt, transfer funds and the whereabouts of the 94 million euros from the sale of the best player in the world, too many sales of the best player in the world :=) ... I'm getting a little dramatic I know, but you get my drift I am sure.

I feel that this January will give a few answers that are outstanding. If we do not buy a couple of handy players, that have a feasable future in our first team - and especially now with the injury list being used as a reason by Fergie for our slightly disappointing first phase of this years EPL (although I can remember us starting a season with 7 players on the operating table not so long ago and that has been a trend that has continued up until now) then I feel that the writing is most definately on the wall and that this club is in big, unmanageable financial trouble. I mean unmanageable in the sense of staying at the top of the tree.

It might be that plans are in place to get on top of that problem and that the Glazers have every intention of strengthening the team at the first possible moment, but then they need to trust us, the supporters on this and just come clean. It may be that they feel that would damage the very activities they are trying to expand, and thereby ensure a larger income stream, but I fear they may have got Sir Alex and others involved in such a way that it would seiously damage their integrity if a cover up is now proved. I would absolutely be sick to the stomach if Sir Alex or Sir Bobby were implicated in pulling the wool over the fans eyes in an attempt to protect the club from the Glazers or their financial mess.

Enough said, I am writing too many novels of late. Normally I enjoy writing a few lines on how fu*king great we are, but the last six months have changed me and I am sensing something serious in the air...sorry about that.

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the Red C December 21, 2009

jeet Said

Great read and I think you are hitting the points I have made over the last six months. I'm just being a little 'darker' than you I suppose, because I see the lack of impact being made by our youngsters in relation to the attention the club has allowed to be turned on them.

The last two seasons we have been asked to believe that the youngsters at this club were good enough, wheras I have been coming to the rapid opinion that if they were indeed good enough they would be playing week in week out, and the fact that they are not making the desired impact (Jonny Evans apart) is now doubly counter productive because it is not just contradicting the club line about them being good enough, it is also deeply underlining our lack of investment in young, quality first team players. I don't mean the Andersons and Nanis of this world either.

They were youngsters we took a big gamble on. They were in their teens or just reaching 20 when we first bought them and had done nothing of real importance. The large ...no make that redicuously huge...amounts we had to pay for those two seems ironic when now set beside Sir Alex's comments of not getting involved in inflated markets.

We need some experienced and quality, world class 23-27 year olds in the team, guys who have shown they can play on big stages in big teams, for a number of games and years. Guys who have developed some maturity, strength and consistancy but still have youth on their side. Rooney is about the only one I am seeing at United - I would still tend to argue against Fletcher being world class level at the moment.

And then of course come all the questions as to why that is the case? I feel the lack of activity in this kind of market for the last two summers has to be questioned and the reasons behind it exposed. It might not even have anything to do with the main suspects. It might be bad judgement and management?