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LIVE BLOG: Manchester United vs West Ham United

August 13, 2017

Thariq Amir

CONFIRMED LINE-UP: United vs West Ham

Matic: I feel like I’ll be at United for a long time

136 Comments

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WeAreUtdd August 13, 2017

@utd24

Well said about Martial

The funny thing is, teammates around him were kinda giving him stick when his celebration was what it was and after the assist all were happy about him and as if they knew martial wasnt happy and laughed because he did exactly what needed and was right to be unhapppy

Lol crazy analytics for s player who usually dont show emotions haha

Good thing is. Options options and he was the first one to come in from the forwards

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Mirain August 13, 2017

United 24

Honestly you always go for generalization.

Rashford as we saw even from last season, is a BIG part of Mourinho's plans. That's the first thing. Preseason and so on.

Martial not at all. YOU DON'T KNOW what is going on so your predictions are just pure speculation. It's not a myth that Martial has been sidelined since Mourinho came. It's very clear. We have all been talking about this for a very long time.

So the generalized analogies and witty retorts are very much out of context. There's no comparison with Isco as well. Isco played second fiddle to Bale. But he was always a primary part of Madrid's strategy. Last season he played more than Bale. Tonight he started against Barca with Ronaldo again on the bench. That is a clear indication of his value at Madrid. No one talks about Rashford on the brink of leaving or being frustrated because it's obvious Mourinho values him highly and proves it in action. Question marks over Martial are based on the reality of what we are all seeing and have seen for a while.

Is he happy? Who knows? Did he look pleased today? No. Did he look unhappy today? Possibly. I've seen a few people on Twitter say the same thing. So there clearly is CONTEXT. Unlike with Rashford or Isco.

We are all speculating. Not just based on "he didn't smile today when he scored". The very fact that people are scrutinizing his expressions shows there is good enough context to be concerned.

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Mirain August 13, 2017

Matic is quality on and off the ball. This kind of attribute makes a world of difference in terms of how well a team plays. If you watch Kante it's the same thing. They win the ball and can break down play. But they are highly technical and intelligent and offer real quality at all times. Matic has a Schweinsteiger vibe about him when in possession. You can expect a quality decision and a quality implementation of that decision.

We need a lot more of that. That's why for a 3 man midfield I'd go for Matic,Pogba and Herrera. Quality players. Quality football. Carrick in the mix as well. It's like Kroos,Modric and Casemiro(who I think is not better than Matic). Once we start thinking like this and acting like it, it's truly game on. Our rivals certainly maintain quality at all times in midfield and attack. We should also do the same and the acquisition of Matic is a big, big statement in that regard

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WeAreUtdd August 13, 2017

that midfield trio will be probably seen against big clubs and probably away from home in certain games

at home vs smaller and mid table it will probably be the 4231. this was the same debate last season.

anyway it only means options. and not saying this is how we should go but I'm sure we will go. especially magic being this good, pogba like Ronaldinho and Herrera we know his qualities and it helps against big clubs. but we'll see. we might as well see a 4231 even vs big teams.

hope with the right players

United24 August 13, 2017

Mirain,
I think you missed my point.
We came to a consensus that any 6 of eight will do fine. We need the quality in depth, at least of those two who don't make the starting line up (And I gave examples ).
What perplexes me is that as a United fan, you keep wishing we sell Mata, and now Martial.
If other teams can have top players who don't play week in week out, that they can count on, why doesn't our beloved United too deserve that.

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Mirain August 13, 2017

Yeah personally I favor two midfielders but I'm not opposed to 3. I think two midfielders allows us to best utilize our attacking players and keep everyone involved. 3 midfielders means one or two of MMM,Rashford and Lukaku will be left out in the cold and when we want to change things up that player or players won't be in the right condition to make a big impact. That's why Pep used one CM in the second half of last season. And yesterday he did the same. He has a lot of top quality in attack and so he needs a system to play as many of them together at the same time. I think we are in the same situation too. We only have 3 top quality midfielders who can be relied on to play 40 plus matches. But we have 5 attacking players of real quality as well. Playing two in midfield and four in attack is a good balance in general terms I think

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Mirain August 13, 2017

"What perplexes me is that as a United fan, you keep wishing we sell Mata, and now Martial. If other teams can have top players who don't play week in week out, that they can count on, why doesn't our beloved United too deserve that."

I never said I expect Martial to play ALL the time. You can't generalize a specific situation and say if other teams have top players who don't play week in week out as if it's the same as Martial's case. Everyone and his dog has been saying Mourinho has not treated Martial fairly. It's not the same as Isco. There were many times we thought Martial would play and either Fellaini or Lingard play. Last season that's all I talked about. At Chelsea,Pedro and Willian would interchange. Pedro in form,Willian may start on the bench and vice versa. Sometimes they'd both play. At Chelsea,Matic,Fabregas and Kante would fight for two places. What you don't have is either one being sidelined for long stretches or being a bit part participant in place of an inferior player. That's the case. So when I say I don't want to see Fellaini, this is exactly what I mean. Martial was always losing out and could not get a fair run. Isco at Madrid played plenty. James Rodriguez was the guy who suffered. They sent him away. But looking at their setup you couldn't hold a grudge with the coach and say "why the fuck is this one playing with James getting few chances". BBC,Isco,Casemiro,Kroos,Modric. It's justifiable that James would struggle for game time even with his quality. So he moved.

At United the situation would be Martial suffering for consistent run of games because Fellaini,Lingard. WTF? That's clearly a very different situation. So given his quality I feel if that continues, he has to leave. He has too much quality to be fighting with Lingard and Fellaini. If he is fighting with the top 8, no problem. That's exactly what I want to see. But not to have another frustrating season. That's where I'm coming from. There is good reason to be concerned given the history.

That's why I prefer Martial on the left and Rashford competing with Lukaku. Or even Rashford and Martial fighting for that left forward position. As long as both players get decent and fair runs in the team. It's the same thing if for instance Herrera finds himself out in the cold with Fellaini taking a primary midfield role. It's mismanagement of quality and it means we have to sell because we would have failed to best utilize resources available

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Mirain August 13, 2017

By the way I don't "wish" for either Mata or Martial to be sold. My wish is for them to be at United and be valued and deliver on what I know they can. But I also don't want to see either player being mismanaged because we don't value them as much as they should be. What benefit does that bring United? Zero. We just continue to be identified as a club where quality dies and soon players will hesitate to join. Also,Martial, debut season,17 goals. Under utilized the following season significantly lower performance. So no real benefit there of keeping him unless we start to value the player more.

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Mark Reid August 13, 2017

What a performance I can't fault any player even Pogba lol.No doubt we will have tougher days and we will have to adjust but one thing I must add the Old Trafford crowd was as loud as I've heard in a long time.
And I really really hope we keep Martial.

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Marq August 14, 2017

Looked at the replay again. Everyone only credited Matic's role in the first goal for his closing down that won the ball. But fast forward to just before Lukaku scored, guess who was right beside Lukaku and was drawing the attention of the West Ham fullback?

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Mirain August 14, 2017

Off topic here. I just read this and was wondering what it all means.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/diego-costa-criminal-chelsea-antonio-conte/1dqacvv5rvh8l1upyq1lmhj8os

I personally don't like Costa as a person. But I'm looking at his situation and I wonder. Why do you require a player to train with the reserves if both the club and player mutually agree on separation? Also, should players simply be sold to the highest bidder and not have a say in where they go? I think something similar happened with Paul Ince. Nicky Butt was coming through and SAF thought he would replace Ince with him. So Paul came back from holiday and was informed United had agreed a deal with Inter.

I don't like the manner of the Neymar deal. But I wonder at times if maybe it's a dog eat dog world and there's nothing immoral about players engineering moves to other clubs before the club they are contracted to even suspects. I mean Costa is a douchebag. This has been scientifically proven. But he was instrumental in making Chelsea champions many times. If he doesn't want to go to China and has a specific club he wants to go to, and the club wants to release him, then why not do it in a civilized manner?

Obviously as you get older most clubs start engineering your exit without you suspecting or expecting it. So why not do it yourself in the first place? Just a random thought

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Zana August 14, 2017

Yep Mobi, thanks:)

He is a world class defensive midfielder, he uses minimal effort yet his contribution is great. What I like about him is his vision to possess the ball when required and pass at the perfect moment mostly forward pass, he never panics on the ball with technicality and dribbles. He slows down the game when required and hastens the tempo when required... yes i am really excited and kudos to Jose for this one indeed.

And as you said earlier in the other blog the depth of our squad is something other teams lacking, so expect a great season:)

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Ezzerguru August 14, 2017

Very impressed with Mourinho's team selection and the performance. I know it was only West Ham but we blew a lot of these games last season. Like the majority of us I was also surprised how good a footballer Matic is.

It looks as if Jose is building a Jose team that can play the United way. He's even looking GQ cover sharp again, unlike the frumpy grumpy old git from last season. Bring it on.

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Zana August 14, 2017

Nicely written by Juan Mata, reflection on yesterday game?

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Features/2017/Aug/Juan-Mata-blog-on-Manchester-United-opening-day-win-over-West-Ham.aspx?newsid=B77C7AE7-A6A0-4EFC-8868-0219877A95EE

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TOD August 14, 2017

Have left Muppet haven't changed my narrative one bit you can ask Utd 24 i always wanted Rashford and Martial as the main forwards and thought Lukaku was a inferior player and think it's dead wrong those two are playing 2nd fiddle to him, you're the only one who brings up my name and spreads lies no one else even mentions me except some clown ayodeji_oyewum making out he's some kind of ROM regular and i've no fucking idea who he is.So you stop with your fucking lies won't be back.

Mirain,West Ham was very passive yesterday, last season against West Ham completely dominated the game just missed a ton of chances, the only difference yesterday we took the chances.Also yesterday West Ham tired badly hadn't played as many pre season games as Utd so we were much fitter and it showed as the game progressed but last season we had plenty of these games the same as yesterday against mid table teams at home that we bullied and peppered with shots on goal just missed a ton of chances

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ayodeji_oyewumi August 15, 2017

The thing about you wayne baker aka TOD aka the guy who first asked to meet someone and fight the guy on this forum is, you are beclouded by ur own ego and hype.You think you are the first person to join ROM or the grandpatron of this forum who inducts everyone.For your information,ive been on ROM since 2011(6years still counting).I dont post regularly as i take time to read other sane manunited fans here and learn from everyone.Everyone here knows how much you find it hard to accept other peoples opinion and this craziness started just after Moyes took over as our manager.

TywinnLannister August 14, 2017

With some fans, damn if you do.. damn if you don't. JM will never win.

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Marq August 15, 2017

Ikr, they must know better than one of the best coaches in history. No idea why they aren't in a hot seat or even a head scout for that matter

ThymmEde August 15, 2017

Zana getting all the credit, I was also in support of Magic. come on guys give me so too

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ThymmEde August 15, 2017

Zana getting all the credit, I was also in support of Matic. come on guys give me some too

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Mirain August 15, 2017

"Ikr, they must know better than one of the best coaches in history. No idea why they aren't in a hot seat or even a head scout for that matter"

So basically people should just come on here and praise everything Mourinho says and does?

It's like saying "how can you criticize Rooney, United and England top scorer and winner of many medals. You think you know football better than him."

It's ridiculous. It doesn't matter what your profile looks like. No one is above criticism. No human being at least. If so, then no one should criticize Pep or Conte here either. They are also the best coaches in the world. The reasoning is flawed and mainly based on "anything that has United written on it should not be criticized". Right now people are saying Pep is overrated and not as good as they say. Ok tomorrow he comes to United and is suddenly above criticism and becomes the best coach of all time. Loved and glorified by all. If we can criticize players then we can criticize coaches. There should not be any favoritism

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Marq August 15, 2017

Did anyone say anything about no criticisms allowed?

You do know there is something in between praise and criticism? It can be neither.

Shooting down opinions that the person cannot and have no intention to back up, is completely valid, because this is a Manchester United blog, not Rashford United

Mirain August 15, 2017

TOD

"Mirain,West Ham was very passive yesterday, last season against West Ham completely dominated the game just missed a ton of chances, the only difference yesterday we took the chances"

Ok, so basically we played well. There's no point criticizing even if you think West Ham was poor. You say last season the only difference was we missed chances and this time we took the chances. Ok. So I'm not seeing the problem here. In other words we have IMPROVED in that fixture from last season.

I personally don't agree that West Ham sat back or parked the bus. It's simply untrue. They did no such thing at any point in the match. They tried to attack but they couldn't deal with our midfield as Matic was shutting that shit down as Negan would say.

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Mirain August 15, 2017

Opening day started with strikers making goal scoring debuts. Lukaku,Morata,Lacazatte and even Wayne Rooney. I think we are going to see a serious race for top scorer this season. Actually I'm just guessing.

Of all the strikers in the top 6,I think Aguero will take it, if he actually plays enough games. I think it's going to be Aguero,Kane,Lukaku in the top 3 in a very tight race to the wire. All 3 are looking very settled and Lukaku I think as the one who made a move to a new club, really settled in impressively. A few things need cleaning up but I think an understanding with teammates is coming to the fore

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Yusuf August 15, 2017

Gentlemen ,

Even though it's hard not to get carried away, there are so many positives to take from the game.

1. Lukaku has three goals in his first two competitive fixtures

2. As valuable as Carrick has proved to be, MATIC is clearly an upgrade

3. The chemistry within the squad is the best I've seen since the 2008 team

4. Rashford and Martial combined make the perfect winger

5. We are far from our potential and we're looking good..

6. Mata, Mhiki, Matic and Herrera are our best footballers and are enough to dominate attacking wise. Pogba, martial and Rashford are the gold dust . Lukaku has the easiest job- bury the chances! Too much quality

Sadly

1. Bailly hasn't found his perfect foil. I'm hopeful for Smalling . I can't get over his last season with LVG

2. We need a left back

3. And we could do with a stronger left footed winger... because Perisic left foot is very strong and very reliable, it could be him.

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WeAreUtdd August 15, 2017

Wayne/tod

Once again trying to run away your responsibility of why you are given stick.

No one is denying that you said that about Martial, heck I even said that, Martial could and can become better.
You need to understand this.

You are getting stick brcause you said If we get Lukaku you will leave. And kinda left cause here you are again and clearly read the comments and probably comment with different usernames. Also Now Lukaku scoring goals 3in2 is just waay too damn funny not to bring your name up. Simple as that.

And oh, i was kidding. I hope you stay away from here. That being said. Bye

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WeAreUtdd August 15, 2017

Back to football. Last time addressing you.

Mirain August 15, 2017

Yusuf

"1. Bailly hasn't found his perfect foil. I'm hopeful for Smalling . I can't get over his last season with LVG "

The hope is that Lindelof can be that. For me the biggest positive is he looks comfortable on the ball and can pass. It may seem a very minor thing to expect of a defender but in top teams it can mean a whole lot. We will dominate possession in most games. So we need CBs who will not cost us possession because they lack composure and technique. I think Jones is very jittery in possession and never looks comfortable. So I hope Victor Lindelof can adapt quickly to become the defensive partner for Bailly that we need.

"2. We need a left back"

For me Luke Shaw is exactly that. We already have him at United and maybe we should give him a real good go at it. Everyone else has attacking fullbacks. We only have Valencia who in my opinion is basically solid but not exactly in the same level as Alonso,Bellerin,Walker,Mendy. But I think Luke Shaw if allowed to play his game is exactly that.

The potential is there for United if there's enough courage to allow for it.

A back four of
Valencia Bailly Lindelof Shaw

A central midfield of

. Matic Pogba/Herrera

Attack

. MMM

Lukaku/Rashford

That's the most creative and attacking lineup we can put forward guaranteed to dominate possession and to keep most opposition teams pinned back in their own half. I'm looking at everyone else and I'm thinking we have the POTENTIAL to compete. Because they may beat us in one area but we can beat them in others with that kind of lineup. Midfield we are stronger individually than City. They have the strongest attack. Spurs are the most balanced team but we can compete man to man. Bottom line is City,Spurs and Chelsea are almost certain to make top four. But looking at their squads, if they field their best eleven combination and we field our best eleven combination, it's a very very tight competition. Hazard,Mhkitaryan,KdB. Mata,Eriksen,Silva. Pogba,Yaya,Fabregas. And so forth. We can compete if we play our cards right for the remainder of the season.

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WeAreUtdd August 15, 2017

Luke Shaw should and could be the answer but lets not kid ourselves, we lost a gem in Mendy. damn it!!!!! he would have been perfect

IF somehow Luke Shaw can stay fit, that would be a win
and if somehow he starts playing like he should m,we could have a strong physical and fast left back playing for us

his problem is his decision making and that he is not technically as good as lets say Mendy or Marcelo BUT we haven't seen him in a while playing regularly because of his fitness and what not. so imma hold my comments and judgement before I see him playing 5 games in a row

He would be so helpful if we cn get him back. cause definitely need someone there

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TywinnLannister August 15, 2017

Mirain
Sound like you are offended. No one said you can't criticize. The first thing that is very tiring to me is the flood gate of criticism with zero credit where credit is due. And the second thing is the constant barrage of endless subjectivity and bias coming out from a fan. These two aren't a good base for healthy discussion.

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Yusuf August 15, 2017

Luke Shaw seemS to have all the ability on the world but could not win the trust of the gaffer, which means we don't have a reliable left back.

I like the kid and I hope he recovers and earns the gaffers trust. That's all it is right now. HOPE!

Lindeloff- boy! I hope you're right. I'm not encouraged but we all like to be proved wrong because it means our team is progressing.

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United24 August 15, 2017

Yusuf,
Re: Lindelof
Do you remember Vidic and Evra, and their competitive debuts?
Too soon to "lose hope" on a 22 year old central defender. As Mirain said, we'll need him a lot, given his known strengths...calmness, and ability on the ball. He just has to adapt his skills to the premier league, a phase Mikhi had to go through.

I'll trust Jose. I don't know why I even began to doubt him ( it must have been my irritation of his overplaying the other gentle giant)

Regarding criticism, it was simply the wrong place and time. We had an almost perfect game. To dwell on the negatives or potential negatives (that are yet to happen), or for anyone to refuse to credit us and claim West Ham did not show up, was just exhibiting an unhealty bias.

If we can't bring ourselves to praise the team or Jose this once, then I shudder to think what will happen on this blog when we inevitably win 1-0, draw, or lose [ or for the " performance fanatics" when the team collectively have a bad day]

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TywinnLannister August 15, 2017

U24
Vidic actually had a pretty good start as I recall, but you are correct about Evra. Another perfect example is one of our greatest defenders, Jaap Stam. That guy had a close to horrible start but gradually eased in into the Premier League.

Yusuf August 15, 2017

Utd24,

My faith never wavered in Jose. I'vemm
I think Ancelotti is the best manager In the world with Jose and Pep runners up. But I digress........ Yes I remember Vidic and Evra.. I followed Evra at Monaco and was very confident in his ability. Vidic on the other hand surprised me. I found him too harsh and too rash with very little composure. He proved me soo wrong.. Lol. I hope Lindeloff follows suit.
Here's to all the players that create cause for uncertainty initially proving us wrong eventually

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Marq August 16, 2017

Mourinho wants Perisic so that we can play 3-5-2, its pretty obvious. But looking at how it is not happening, we may just stick to 4-5-1

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MobiMulla August 13, 2017

Zana Credit to you pal..
I wasn't over the moon with the signing.. I acknowledged the need for a DM but I wanted blind to play there and didn't think buying Matic was a sensible move but I have no shame in admitting I was wrong.. best signing since saf left sounds about right.. some players have a good start and drop off so it would be unwise to judge this early but he just looks class doesn't he? Also did you guys notice? I knew he was efficient and excellent in winning the ball back through his tackling ability and his interceptions from being someone who positions himself and reads the game well but I was surprised to see him doing sharp turns on the ball and beating the opposition.. for a big tall guy that was superb!