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LIVE BLOG: Shakhtar Donetsk vs United

October 2, 2013

Daniel Stapleton

Follow @danstapleton89 on Twitter.

Ryan Giggs breaks Champions League record

VIDEO: Welbeck goal vs Shakhtar Donetsk

315 Comments

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tony October 2, 2013

i agree dav

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keanoisdaman October 2, 2013

Bring back fergie....he never ever ever made any mistakes....we won every away game in Europe.playing free flowing attacking football.

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drxhuxhu October 2, 2013

I'm speechless,can't believe this is my Dear Manutd or an I watching Everton lately?We are very poor,game after game,no effort,no passion..for the Moyes Supporters,I really don't know what to say about Moyes as Manutd coach,he's clueless,turning the whole team into a clueless set,real soon,we the fans we be deluded and clueless..I read through some posts on here from some fans and I ask myself,are these people supporting Moyes,happy with our display since Moyes took over?I'm so gutted

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man.utd20 October 2, 2013

@Wee Toms Ligaments - Playing proactive football is not gambling. You control possession and create chances its not like you throw on 4-5 attackers and lose the defensive shape. We are either not doing it in training or some of the players we got cant play that way. In todays match whenever we got the ball we didnt know how to retain it and get us higher up the pitch and release the pressure on defenders. Its not gambling its playing proper football in a balanced way. A better team may have scored another and then what would you say.
Sir alex would tell you its the attitude with which you go into games that matters. He used to instill belief in the side that man utd plays to win.If we lose that then we are just another team in my opinion

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Rukky October 2, 2013

Ok support the manager alright, but its obvious he has to improve in tactically because the level he's at simply isnt good enough. I just dont understand the decision taking; looking at our technical crew doesn't exactly stir up motivation either

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Mr C October 2, 2013

o/t just seen the Bayern goals ...fucking hell Hart had a real stinker again...bet he won't get the venom from the Abu media that DDG attracts at the drop of a hat

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robbo2keano October 2, 2013

if people are writing of fellaini now, i think that is an over reaction. the lad is 4 games into his united career yet i am seeing comments to ship him off? i wonder is these people where saying the same about evra and vidic. it takes time to settle into a team like united and play at that level unless you are world class. he was atrocious today but i believe he can improve

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Maltamanc October 2, 2013

Dev... Still counting ?

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TraffordLord October 2, 2013

In hindsight it is a good point against a dangerous home side, especially considering their record against English opposition. However, the game isn't played in hindsight....in the thick of the action we should have been responsible at the back, but still attacked to give Shakhtar something to think about.

They are full of fast Brazillians with guile, so what Moyes and his coaching staff thought would happen by throwing on one of their coaches on is beyond me. Giggs is too one-paced for a game where the opponents are being allowed to engage on onslaught after onslaught.

Here are key problems:

1. Moyes doesn't know how to affect the game with substitutions.
Possible Solutions: Might get resolved the more he spends time with players, or go get one or two coaches he let go in the name of having his own people around him.

2. I am now convinced there is a problem with the training regime. Players getting knocked off at training right before key games. (Rooney- ghastly gash, swollen shin or ankle, RVP- groin)
Possible Solutions: Reduce the intensity right before match day, going full blast the night before puts players in danger of picking up knocks/injuries

Good point in Ukraine, at least the bleeding stopped. I support the gaffer 100%.

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The Truth October 2, 2013

You can't tell much either way from a game like that one. Away to Sunderland on Saturday is the real test of where we're at.

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Dev October 2, 2013

nadzfire

Actually, the expectations are in line with reality. Fact is we've just changed a new manager, new staff, with little to no idea how the club is run. 6 games in and it seems you can all extrapolate that into what the season would turn out to be like already.

Maltamanc

So Welbeck scored the only goal for us tonight. Job done, let's focus on the next.

We're in a transition right now, do you really expect someone with no prior Champions League experience and have won nothing in his career ever to pick up straight from where Sir Alex has left off?

Fact is for someone who is (apparently) clueless, we've done OKAY so far. I wouldn't say great, but I wouldn't hit panic stations yet. Give Moyes some time, and judge him on his merits.

I'd do the same with Welbeck. He did well tonight, covering Evra well and scoring our only goal despite its scrapiness.

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Diego October 2, 2013

We actually spent £27m on Fellaini? Some people wondered why many here didn't want us to sign him during the summer. Well, that was why. When has a United player lost the ball more times in a game? He simply doesn't have the required skills to play for us.

Play defensive, disciplined football by all means, but by God make sure you win the games more often than not.

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Voice of reason October 2, 2013

I am positive that moyes has rescued Rooney and Nani and given januazj a chance - I am not sure I will ever forgive him thoughh for signing Fellini instead of ozil - fergie must take a lot of the blame for our diabolical midfield options - imagine we bought dembele last summer and added ozil this? Cleverly does not know what a forward pass is - his first move is backwards - Paul scholes first move was always forwards

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Rukky October 2, 2013

*Improve tactically*

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The Truth October 2, 2013

@keanoisdaman

You slagging Fergie?

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keanoisdaman October 2, 2013

The truth....haha

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Wee Toms Ligaments October 2, 2013

Free flowing football? Since when? United have ground out results for the better part of 5 seasons now. The seasoned players are a tad old and the young guns are inexperienced at winning in Europe.

Fact is, the minimum required tonight was a draw. Done.

United may have pushed for the winner late on with more aggressive/risky substitutions by why? A point was needed a point was gained.

For a completely worthless/clueless manager - you muppets words not mine - he has the expected 4 points from the first two matches. Moan on about specific players sitting but do not complain about the result.

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Dev October 2, 2013

man.utd20

It is when you don't have the personnel to do it.

Like I said, if Moyes is to be faulted for not playing "attractive attacking football", it's because of his obsession with Fabregas and Baines. He missed out on the chance to actually correct a problem with the centre of the midfield.

Kagawa, Zaha and Nani would've helped naught tonight, because they're all known to be defensively suspect despite going forward well. You don't go and play a couple of attackers who have zero clue how to defend against a very good flair side away from home. That's just asking for it.

It seems Moyes can't win at the moment. If he were to play a seriously offensive side and lost the game, he would be blamed as well.

We got a point away from home in Europe, we're top of the table. You'd think from the reaction here, the opposite was the case.

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Maltamanc October 2, 2013

Dev... I haven't mentioned Moyes... I know he still has a lot to learn and I am willing to give him time... What really bother me are the performances... We're United not Everton, we're a TOP European club and we should start acting like one... United look like they've lost the superiority complex they had... Always remember this : United, not arrogant, just better... We should start believing it again ASAP.

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WeAreUnited October 2, 2013

to be honest, a VERY VERY VERY disappointed performance and result. We can't be happy with out performance whichever country we werem we are freaking ManUtd and we should not give shakhtar the chance to rol lthe ball. The result is only good, because we led 1-0 and Shakhtar basically did nothing and then we made a mistake and game over 1-1, better than losing, but that's not a good mentality.

the only glad thing I can see fro mthis game is that now we have Rooney, Nani, Januzaj, Chicha and Kagawa rested, which sounds very strange, because those are our top dogs.

PS. big respect for giggsy, BUT WHAT IN THE HELL, why was he on the field? I know he can decide games, but no way in hell he should play. Welbeck should have been subbed after 70 minutes because we could nto string any attack on the left and the same on the right.

I think we settled for a 1-0 win, which is stupid in football and got a negative/ possible positive 1-1.
won't say much, because otherwise I would be cursing and huffing and saying stuff that only upsets myself, so to the batmobile BATMAN! I mean to the next game!

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Red October 2, 2013

I hope kagawa leaves next summer, this was his chance to shine in his beloved no. 10 role with rooney out, he is a wasted talent, moyes is fucking clueless, bringing a 40 yr old against a team who has pacey wingers, and then bringing on jones when there are LITERALLY 10 SECONDS LEFT. The team looked tired after 70 mins and common sense would tell you to make a sub. I think the problem is the men around him are as clueless as he is, and there is no one to give him some good advice. This is why he should have kept the backroom staff of the past.

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aaronDS October 2, 2013

very good point concerning the occassion and bitterness on this forum . comon cherr up !!!

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The Truth October 2, 2013

@WeAreUnited

Respect to you for not sugarcoating things for once.

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Dev October 2, 2013

Maltamanc

That has everything to do with change from Sir Alex to Moyes, no? Fact is our lack of belief (or otherwise) and playstyle has everything to do with the change in personnel.

Give him time, and adjust your expectations accordingly. Remember that nobody is bigger than the club, not even Sir Alex. Come February or March and we're still this rotten, then perhaps it would be time to reconsider Moyes' future. 6 games in and 2 champions league matches later is not the time.

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nadzfire October 2, 2013

Dev

Actually, the expectations are in line with reality. Fact is we’ve just changed a new manager, new staff, with little to no idea how the club is run. 6 games in and it seems you can all extrapolate that into what the season would turn out to be like already.

Dev, I'm not one for negativity and all doomsday scenario's, but you have to call a spade or spade. You are correct in stating that the management and coaching staff are new and hence are still adjusting to the modus operandi of United. Would you please tell me then what were the entire coaching staff doing during the past 3 months from July onwards? 3 months is a long time to get to know the players through friendlies, competitive matches and training sessions but from Moyes teams selections it is rather evident that he still doesn't know who his starting 11 is.

Moreover, it doesn't take a genius to figure things like the only players capable of infusing creativity in our squad are being benched for older 'reliable' players or just familiar faces. Think about it, we have Nani given his inconsistencies and shortcomings, is a world beater on his day; and Kagawa - a former player of the year in the Bundesliga are hardly starting. Instead he sticks with Young and Valencia - This is my main concern with Moyes. I will not elaborate any further with Zaha.

As to your point of extrapolating- it makes sense that one would try to see into the future given a particular style of play. And so far apart from the Swansea game, has not been much. I do sincerely hope that Moyes figures out his starting 11 and ditch the 4-4-2 formation for a 4-2-3-1.

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trf October 2, 2013

A litlle bit disappointed with the second half. Lost many possession and stupid foul. Didnt make any shots except van Persie's. Is that really really hard to make (even) just 5 shots for this match?!

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The Truth October 2, 2013

To be fair that was a definite penalty when Cleverley fouled the Shakhtar lad. Could have been a very different story if that was given.

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Buchan October 2, 2013

Twats, complaining before we even kick off.....
This anti English sentiment is really starting to fuck me off as well, UTD are an English team, playing in the English premier league, i welcome any nationality to play for my club, but excuse me if i'm happy that the odd local lad gets a look in too.
constructive criticism is fine, rabid negativity before a ball is kicked, fuck off!

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Dev October 2, 2013

nadzfire

I'm annoyed with what you've mentioned above too. Moyes insisting on his staff and men, persisting with Fabregas and Baines, his cluelessness with regards to the current personnel etc.

3 months really isn't a lot of time, and judging from his past record he doesn't seem like manager of one of he world's best teams material. But the facts are that he deserves more time to prove he has more than what meets the eye. He fucked it with and the chance to improve the United squad during the transfer window as well, although much of the blame can be apportioned to the board.

All we can do now is hope for the best and prepare for the worse. Judging from tonight's performance though, it's not bad for someone who is constantly slated as being clueless and has generally zero idea of what European football is like.

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Rukky October 2, 2013

The result isnt as bad as the performance imo. It's totally honest right now to say moyes lacks ball and tactic pedigree, but we only hope he'll change with time. But as for today ddg, rvp and rafael were d only sparks of optimism in our team

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matty October 2, 2013

Lol yall keep mentioning the swansea game like we bossed that game. We were totally dominated 85% of that game too. Better finishing saved us that day(like it did all of last season) too bad even that has left us too. Or is it our serial inability to make enough chances these days? Am slowly learning to switch off my emotions towards matchday performances for now.

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Maltamanc October 2, 2013

Dev... Expectations are already adjusted... What I also expect, though, is that DM starts his best XI and actually tries to win matches, that's all.... All this safety and lack of offensive football is killing me :)

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Dred October 2, 2013

@Maltamanc "United look like they’ve lost the superiority complex they had… Always remember this : United, not arrogant, just better… We should start believing it again ASAP."

Very true but it`s not since David Moyes came in. Even though we won the league by 11 pts under Sir Alex, did we really put in any frightening performances in any of the 38 games?

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mara October 2, 2013

Jesus Christ...United have the best fans in the world! To be satisfy with 1:1 with Shaktar and then claim that we are one of the best/biggest clun in the world???
People, i just watched Bayern-Citeh...Bayern is on top because they are not satisfy with 1:1 with Shaktar. This blog became colective madness. Dont get it. Are you people on drugs or what? What is going on here? If we continue like this, not that best players wont come here, but all good players will go. This is shit. You should see what Bayern did to Citeh. Last 10 minutes Citeh was good coz they stopped playing. Citeh played like kids against grown up people! And we cant win them. Bayern shoed how you should dominate the game. And we get 4 goals from Citeh and think we will win something. The only trophy we will win is named NOTHING.
This is not normal.
If you have a chance, watch that game, specially 2nd half. Like i said, dont like german way of football. Bayern won trophys and before, but the way they play is amazing. Then you will see what Is football, and how far we are from that.
They play the best football i ever seen in my life. Definitly the best! Fast, strong, tehnically PERFECT, straight, not like Barca (they get you sleep)...
I mean, germans played fot decades the worst football in the world. Awful! But this transformation is like miracle. Ribery and Robben...any winger from our club cant clean their boots. We have wingers but not like Giggs was, when he was younger. We bought bunch of squad players, and that s just not good enough.
But we are satisfy, we played against Shaktar 1:1, although it was not home game, everyone knows to play football...bla bla bla...WE WILL WIN SHIT WITH THIS ATTITUDE!
We need a lot of luck on the transfer market, money, wisdom, Gods bless to get on the top. But as i can see our transfer market targets are some unknown players, probably average, something we have for export.
And our manager need to learn how to play ofensive, agressive because we dont know play any other style. I m not for sacking him, but he has a lot job to do and i think he hasn t to much time. I wish him luck, coz i can t see oir football any more. This is horor.

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Maltamanc October 2, 2013

Dred.... True mate, it's been haunting us since Ronaldo left approximately.

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matty October 2, 2013

Dev, guardiola and his own staff are also more or less only 3months into the very difficult job at bayern. True to nature we all noticed a wobbly first few weeks, but why does he seem to have figured out things already while our manager the adorable mr moyes keeps playing gorilla joe with phil neville and the rest of his clueless bunch of tourist coaching team. Please let us all get together and script a heart-felt letter to giggsy, begging him to save us all the good memories and quit now. What is 1000apps if he turns into a loui chardwick in our mental pics of him.

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Lawman10 October 2, 2013

I have I made a mistake, but I thought this was a united site ??
Because sure as hell does not read like one!!

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Dev October 2, 2013

matty

The difference is that Bayern's framework and foundations haev alreaedy been set way before Guardiola and his men arrived. You can see the evidence in that with the likes of Alaba, Schweinsteiger, Badstubber, Lahm, Mueller and others I can't pull off the top of my head.

The facts are as a whole, English football development has been lagging behind badly and we've only started going towards the "continental style" when the likes of Quieroz and Meulensteen came in. Moyes is no Loanovsky or Guttmann, so expecting him to mould a team in the image of the great attacking sides that boss Europe is kind of pointless.

What we can expect though is a team that will probably be hard to beat, solid defensively and would perform well in the Premier League. Whether he has the balls and brains in him to one day learn to progress from where he is right now, however, is anybody's guess.

Perhaps signs of that would show when we get another transfer window, until then let's all reserve judgement no?

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nadzfire October 2, 2013

Dev, guess that's fair. Fergie did say we back the manager whoever he is so I'll have to just remind myself every now and then to do that and hope Moyes comes through.

One thing Moyes will absolutely have to focus on now is phasing veterans like Rio, Giggs, et, al over the the next few seasons rather than giving them starting berths based on their history and contribution to the club. United will actually start doing well as team if every player himself knows that he is indispensible and to continue to be in the mix, must produce performances worth of acknowledging as United standards.

Apart from that, any further transfer dealings should be wrapped up quickly and assertively. No more of dithering or dilly dallying. Moyes, Ed and most importantly the Glazers must realize that the days of 'finding value in the market' are over. The ugly truth is that we must pay the going rate if we are to recruit quality players into our squad - players that would have a major say in United's trophy ambitions. January should be a very interesting transfer window..

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Maltamanc October 2, 2013

What I long for are those ruthless, merciless performances where Man United were not content with beating teams, they would be he'll bent on their utter destruction... Also United's appetite for goals was insatiable 4-0 up and we would still be attacking.... That's the real spirit of Man United not safety and defence against the ropes for the entire 90 mins against inferior teams... Who gives a fuck about conceding a goal if you know you can score 5... That' s what Moyes should aspire to achieve at United... Aggression, ruthlessness and merciless total football.

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Dev October 2, 2013

*Badstuber
*Queiroz
*Lobanovskyi

Got all my names in a mess tonight, fuck me.

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mara October 2, 2013

And one more thing....Muller is F A N T A S T I C PLAYER. Can t say Messi league, but more than fantastic.

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nadzfire October 2, 2013

Muller is more of a poacher type of player. He relies on services and ofcourse, being in the right place at the right time. We already have that kind of player in Hernandez..the only marginal difference may be in the strength, physicality and hold up play but from what we've seen so far Hernandez has improved on his overall game play. It only about getting chances and minutes of the field for him. Hernandez epitomized everything that is good about United.

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nadzfire October 2, 2013

Regarding the earlier comments about the foundation, that is the only criticism that I must lay on Fergie - As much as he did for United in all this time here, he did not leave Moyes with much of team to begin with. Filled with old and/or injury prone players. He never resolved United's midfield issues even while they were glaring at him/us in the face rather he stuck to improvising a new MF every game.

I've a feeling that Fergie knew that the squad that won the PL last season basically overachieved and reached their peak - to compete any further would require years of massive rebuilding and investments of money and time into the squad - something that Fergie did not have the luxury of. So he left after his last great act - wrestling the title back from city but in the process left Moyes with an uneven and unbalanced squad to work with.

Guardiola has been lucky that way because the foundations have always been set for him whenever he had arrived. Barcelona and Bayern were/are basically set in their style of play so all he has to worry about is making a small number of tweaks or adjustments in the squad and he is sorted. Moyes on the other hand has a massive job of building / overhauling a squad while trying to walk to Fergie's boots.

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The Truth October 2, 2013

@Dev

"The difference is that Bayern’s framework and foundations haev alreaedy been set way before Guardiola and his men arrived."

Whereas Moyes has inherited what exactly? Champions by 11 points, a fantastic blend of experience (Rio, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Giggs) youth (Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Cleverley) and some of the best players in the world (RVP, Rooney, De Gea, Nani, Kagawa) with yet more quality coming through (Januzaj, Lingard, Zaha.)

Laughable the way some have tried to paint the squad Sir Alex left to Moyes. By all accounts the previous regime had also laid the groundwork for us to sign Thiago and Herrera, but Moyes and co somehow conspired to fuck those deals up.

The only reason Moyes needs so much time and patience is because he's badly out of his depth. It has nothing to do with this supposed squad of no-hopers he's been left with.

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Random October 2, 2013

matty

'our manager the adorable mr moyes keeps playing gorilla joe with phil neville and the rest of his clueless bunch of tourist coaching team. Please let us all get together and script a heart-felt letter to giggsy'

Do not lower the average IQ of the blog.

-------------------------------------------------------

As for the match, good result. A good away point in the bag, no injuries, first choice attack fresh for weekend, pressure relieved for DM (except for some morons here who are going to bullshit people anyway). Job done. Two wins hopefully against Sociedad, and group stages are done with, which are anyways shit boring, such is the nature of the competition.

Looking forward to a good performance against Sunderland now.

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Wee Toms Ligaments October 2, 2013

Numpties. The lot of ya. Toughest opening game done and dusted for the expected point and all you muppets can do is find fault. YES Moyes is not as good as Sir Alex, Guardiola, Mourinho when it comes to attacking football. And YES Moyes does not inderstand how to get the best of the squad (so far). Support the man for Gods sake. Wish him well on his point earned and ENCOURAGE the man to get better.

Bunch of negative fucks.

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Random October 2, 2013

Maltamanc says:
What I long for are those ruthless, merciless performances where Man United were not content with beating teams, they would be he’ll bent on their utter destruction… Also United’s appetite for goals was insatiable 4-0 up and we would still be attacking

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I have never seen a 4-0 performance away from home in the last decade. So I do not know what you expect.

At home, yes but I think we should see that under Moyes soon. Even consistenly, provided we get one or two world-class players. 1) A mobile playmaking left-attacker on the lines of Mata and 2) a central midfielder who is what we hoped Anderson would develop into: fast, can run with the ball through the midfield, and a goal-scoring threat. See his Porto days videos.

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The Truth October 2, 2013

@Random

Wolves 0-5 United (2012)
WBA 0-5 United (2009)
Newcastle 1-5 (2008)
Bolton 0-4 United (2006)

That's just off the top of my head.

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Random October 2, 2013

Wee Toms Ligaments

Well said. With some of them, I wonder how do they get along in life: being so fucking negative, downright pessimistic and laughably contemptuous about sincere hard-working people.