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LIVE BLOG: United vs Bayer Leverkusen

September 17, 2013

Daniel Stapleton

Follow @danstapleton89 on Twitter.

CONFIRMED LINE-UP: United vs Leverkusen

VIDEO: Rooney angry ITV interview

292 Comments

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Mobi September 18, 2013

I honestly think our best line up (considering all aspects) against city would be..

DDG
Smalling Rio Vida Evra
Carrick Fellaini
Valencia Rooney Young
RVP

Against Liverpool we can have Fabio Evans Hernandez nani kagawa zaha all.have game time

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bayoRed September 18, 2013

I hope Rooney and RvP can be bigger than their egos, coz we need both! And they are really a fearsome two.

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Proverb September 18, 2013

Kagawa looked totally knackered by minute 50, its understandable after all. although his vision and awareness is there to be seen, if he could keep feet for an extended amount of time I think moyes can get him to the level required from a player based in the toughest league in the world.

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Proverb September 18, 2013

@Random
I couldn't see what you're assuming there, maybe I might have been watching a different match.

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Proverb September 18, 2013

I didn't see an issue between the two, they are totally fine with each other, also you just can't tell if Roo's intention was to square it to robin or go for goal himself.

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mjcRED September 18, 2013

I thought Kagawa looked good last night, he knits and links the play well. What we're beginning to see is a really interesting blend of styles in how Carrick, Fellaini and Kagawa each compliment each other and contribute by linking play for the team. This variety will hopefully see us controlling games more both physically and through ability on the ball. I'm also looking forward to seeing us attacking more centrally, rather than always getting it out wide which became predictable and served to limit our effectiveness against top opposition, at home and in Europe.

I know it's early but I think that is our strongest current 11 that started last night, give or take the competition for places between Nani and Valencia an also Rafael at right back. I liked Smalling and he brings a solidity when defending. Rafael and Fabio offer more from an attacking perspective with their willingness and ability in overlapping down the wing.

Again, taking into account it's only been 2 games, but Fellaini has settled in impressively. I questioned what he'd bring to the team but we've already witnessed his ability in keeping thinks simple and moving the ball with purpose and accurately, long or short. Combined with this the twin attributes of greatly improving our physical element when attacking and defending corners.

With a more disciplined defense and by cutting out the mistakes cost us their second goal, I felt that for the first time in a while we really controlled the game, rather than relying solely on the counter attack and wing play.

Optimistic for Sunday, bring it on.......

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Proverb September 18, 2013

Here are few stats of Fellaini's full man Utd debut.

Impressive:

Passes made=84
successful % of passes 87%
take ons 1/1
ball recovery=12 times
tackles 2/2
interceptions=4
clearences 7/7
aerial duels 4/6
fouls suffered=2
fouls committed=1

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Cool Goat HOT POTATOE! September 18, 2013

Proverb
Couldn't agree with you more. Rooney has been world class even though it pains me to say so. If he carries on playing like this then I can forgive him some indiscretions and the signing of Fellaini has really helped him and helped Carrick no end.

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samuel - united WE stand September 18, 2013

Another big test for fellaini will be on sunday vs yaya etc. He's started well, he is doing what I hoped he would do which passing accurately, reading the game, intercepting and providing a platform for the backline. He and carrick's partnership will be interesting to see. Another thing I would like both to do more is close the opposition down around the 18yard box, top players can hit them in from anywhere and they need to be closed down. A lack of this happening is why simone rolfes scored, need to close them down.

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samuel - united WE stand September 18, 2013

Hopefully this will ignite anderson to up his performances.

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DreadedRed September 18, 2013

RVP says: “Wayne played really well. I love to play with him as he can do everything, he can drop, he can go in behind, he can play the short and the long game. He did really well."

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Gorse Hill Red September 18, 2013

So the financial results are out and it's not pretty reading by any stretch of the imagination.
The debt has increased every quarter in this financial year:
31 Dec 12 £349m
31 Mar 13 £362m
31 Jun 13 £377m

The cost to finance the debt has jumped to £70m for the year!!! Regardless of extra cost making this figure this simply shocking and impeding on United competing in Europe and will have an effect on the domestic league at some point.

Anyone who thinks the Glaziers are doing a good job are living in cloud cuckoo land.

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Cool Goat HOT POTATOE! September 18, 2013

Gorse Hill Red
Thats because part of the debt is paid off once annually not monthly like a home mortgage and so interest will be added to each quarterly figure. When the fourth quarter is shown or maybe if you show Jun 12 and Mar 12 we will see how the debt has come down and what muppets are giving only part of the information needed to make a rational decision on whether we like the Glazers or not.

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Random September 18, 2013

@ Proverb.

Yah I was just speculating. I agree that I am reading too much into it, and focusing on just one-or-two matches. I maybe completely wrong and I hope so. :)

I just think that Rooney has become a bit more 'formal', shall we say.
I mean Rooney is very unselfish in the final third, and always takes the correct decision, would not take shot unless it is really high percentage. But he has recently chosen to take low-percentage shots.
Then, he is seems to be an equal in terms of free kicks, earlier it was mostly RVP.
Finally, their celebrations towards each other are a bit muted, especially Rooney's for RVP.

Still, I feel that Rooney, for all his fat and lazyness in training, has been messed in his ass by Fergie last year, especially with RVP as a 'good' student and Rooney as the 'bad' student. And that I feel may be a factor in Rooney's desire to leave.

As to RVP's reaction on Rooney yesterday, RVP is quite clever and thorough with his interviews. Unlike Rooney, who yesterday had enough of the media it seems, or finds hard to give a logical reason for his brainwashing.

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Gorse Hill Red September 18, 2013

I'm afraid those figures are the final figures for the fourth quarter and the End of year results. Debt is not paid annually and would be reflected in each quarter if paid off. By law Man Utd being a traded company must give the true set of accounts. We all know what to Enron for falsifying accounts.

As I said before these accounts don't lie and for me it's very worrying that even with high revenues from the previous financial year United's debt has increased and paid a mammoth amount of money to service this debt. Equal to an Ozil and Mata in terms of money.

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Dave Mack September 18, 2013

@GorseHill .. get over it.

Debt is running at less than 15% of NYSE Market Valuation. That's like having a 90,000 loan on a 600,000 house! Plus income is up 14%. As Football365 just said "United have gobs of money. They are richer than God!"'

Lets stick with football here!

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Random September 18, 2013

samuel - united WE stand says:
Hopefully this will ignite anderson to up his performances.

Hopefully. I long for that day when Anderson fulfills his obvious potential. Last season, this time of the year, Anderson was on a roll, until that Reading match.

That said, Fellaini had nicely slotted into the midfield like a cool fucker.

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Gorse Hill Red September 18, 2013

@Dave Mack,
This is a serious issue as it may effect 'football' in later years. Remember Leeds? It really does not matter if it's 15% or 50%, our rivals don't have this burden and it eventually will make us uncompetitive.
So in response to your earlier comment no I wont get over it.

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In David We Trust September 18, 2013

Well when you see rooney in this form, now many know why Kagwa will never play behind RVP,rooney on a different level to kagwa, and rooney RVP axis will be key in trying to retain the title.

But let rooney having a free role in the number 10 position but allowed to join RVP in attack as the number 9, is where rooney is at his best. A few of us, including me, said? is Moyes defensive? well seeing how Moyes sets his teams up is like the 90's fergie, full out 442, DDG ferdinand vidic carrick fellaini rooney RVP. Perhaps fergie for a long time now, was perhaps more conservative in the approach, always shafting rooney 60% of his career on the left right, or playing too deep. Its great to see Moyes playing rooney where he truly belongs, upfront, but playing off the frontman.

I really hope fellaini proves me wrong, and he may do, as I was never convinced in his ball retention and distribution of the ball, or has a CM player in general Maybe fellaini had to really up his game, and change the way he plays. And fellaini seems to have the ability to adapt very well

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Axeman September 18, 2013

United declare record revenues. Finances are in good health :)

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1556501/manchester-united-announce-record-revenue

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Ash September 18, 2013

Believe in Moyes. Read this

http://kingashwin.blogspot.in/2013/09/believe-in-moyes.html

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Traffordium September 18, 2013

Oh dear, every little shit deserves an opinion just not Jamie Carragher

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xyz September 18, 2013

@Random @Proverb

I was a bit worried about the RVP/Rooney thing too. I worried RVP lost respect for Rooney trying to leave a club all summer that he himself rates so highly - I felt his comment about finding the squad more than good enough (after the charity shield) might have been aimed at Rooney rather than the press. So I've kind of being looking for the problem since.

But last night 2 things reassured me - when RVP was fouled rigiht in the middle outside the box and Rooney arrived with ball in hand, RVP laughed and obviously said - "you take it" which difused the situation nicely. Secondly, when Rooney was interviewed after the game on ITV and asked about the shot/cross, he, very honestly, laughed and said "I know, I know. I got completely caught in 2 minds and messed it up" (or words to that effect). I'm pretty sure Rooney isn't a good enough actor, so it wasn't a case of "I'm not passing to him", it was just a mistake. I think/hope their relationship is at least a good working one. I don't think this is Cantona and Cole all over.

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wayne September 18, 2013

Apart from a couple of defensive mishaps lads made it look easy last night could've easily been six or seven.Couple of things i'm beginning to think that no big club making a bid for Rooney has probably shocked him(don't consider the Rent Boys low ball bid a proper bid),so now he's going to prove everyone wrong.The Rooney out there last night is chalk and cheese to what we got last year,only time will tell what his motivation is if a new contract isn't signed then Utd will still be able to get 25 mill next summer and after a good season more clubs will be interested.
Now i hope this Kagawa obsession can be put to bed pretty obvious after last night why he hasn't started to this point,i'm not putting him down but he was off pace and got caught with the ball numerous times.If Rooney continues in his present form Kagawa is going have to adapt quick to playing on the left otherwise it's going to be another frustrating season for him

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Dave Mack September 18, 2013

@goorse .. wrong on all counts.

Level of debt to value is important. United's is insignificant given our market cap, income and cash flow. Our rivals operate under different business models. None half as successfulll as ours. This is strength. How does your business finance growth?

As I suggested before. Find someting important to worry about. United's finances are in great shape.

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Cool Goat HOT POTATOE! September 18, 2013

Gorse Hill Red
Im sorry my friend but you havent shown above the accounts for the year. You showed us 3 x 3 month periods which make up 9 months. 12 months in a year last time I counted. As the results arent published as yet for the end september seeing as we havent reached that yet can you show last septembers (i.e. SEPT 2012) That way we can see if the debt has increased or decreased for an entire year - not a 9 month year - and that we are not receiving doctored figures or better still incomplete figures.
Your reluctance to share with us that information makes me wonder whether you have come on here to bang your drum in a dieing campaign to oust out the Glazers. MUST is dead at your feet littering a one sided battle ground yet the little drummer boys keeps tapping away. There's a dead cavalry horse over there, why dont you stop drumming and flog it.

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Dave Mack September 18, 2013

Cool post ... Cool Goat!

Our cub is strong and although the numbers who doubt are rapidly diminishing, there are still too many who want to stir up trouble based on misinformation and/or misunderstanding .... all in support of a dinasouir agenda of clubs being owned and operated by fans.

Might work for FC United but does anyone really think we'll ever see them in the CL?!!

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Proverb September 18, 2013

Well put @Wayne

@goat cheers mate, glad mate that you're starting to recognize his importance. long may it continue.

@Random
Its all speculations mate, don't follow everything this ABU's say. Since Robin's arrival to this Club, despite the saying wazza has "fallen out of favor" at old rafford being spout, the boy has kept his head down and went about his business.
Wazza believes in his ability, its only a shame that he can't keep that level of footballing ingenuity on a consistent basis. But make no mistakes, the boy is a born winner, he earns his paycheck, never sulks on the pitch, gives his all for the course no wonder the match goers haven't given him as much stick if any. The bollocks that have been written on here and still are regarding our players if were taken into consideration by the board this club would already be down the byss. Its crazy though how we contradict ourselves when things go right. Me included
So peace!!!!

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Gorse Hill Red September 18, 2013

@Cool Goat I showed the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter results. Your more than welcome to visit the official Man Utd website if you don't believe me but I did expect some research from yourself before you accused me of 'reluctant' to share information with you. The figures are taken directly of the published accounts from Man Utd and are true.

@Dave Mack your certainly right about our club being strong but surely you can see that our club would be much more stronger if the debt and the servicing of the debt disappeared. If the debt was eradicated your talking about transfer kitty's that are equivalent to Madrid, Chelsea and City and still making a profit.

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mara September 18, 2013

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2424038/Manchester-United-v-Bayer-Leverkusen-Empty-seats-Old-Trafford.html

I have to say, that fans shoudnt come on the next few games, and then Glazers would cut ticket prices. As long as fans will come, they wont cut the price.

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xyz September 18, 2013

@Gorse "If the debt disappeared" - yes of course, but now back to reality. What are the realistic options for our ownership -

1. public listing - the board would have to take on some debt anyway (it is simply inefficient to run a listed business with no debt) and then the shareholders would expect dividends - that would be "cash that could be spent on players" leaving the business.

2. Sugar Daddy - do we want to owned by a sugar Daddy who can fire managers at will, buy and sell players at will and walk away from his toy if no longer interested? No.

3. Another investor - no individual would be able to afford the club without either debt funding some/most of the purchase, or if a Warren Buffet (eg investor with sufficient funds) was to buy it they would expect a return on investment, eg cash leaving the business that "could be spent on players".

4. MUST - ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

So we are all agreed that we'd love a super rich genuine United fan to buy the club, get rid of all the debt and not expect any return from their investment. Sadly in the real world we have a choice of the Glazers or one of the above options. I for one pick the Glazers.

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wayne September 18, 2013

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/09/18/4270803/-?

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Marq September 18, 2013

Some people just need their daily dose of bad news and conspiracies, if they want to believe we are on the road to ruins, let them.

Lets talk logic, because I suppose not everyone understands economics.

Before we start, lets get a facts right about what the Glazers did recently
1) United got listed
2) Refinancing by way of Bonds issuance

First off, the figures given by Gorse not stating if debt repayment is factored in.
1) Fact, paying debt off annually gives you a better interest rate, so it is likely the case for us
2) if somehow we are repaying quarterly or even monthly, and still our debt is rising, then I say the bank that approved this is in seriously trouble
3) If the repayment is in March, it would show, if somehow it is in Dec, you can shut all of us up by showing the debt level at Sept
4) Lastly, increased revenue does not change your repayment unless you choose to. So even in the worst case scenario that our debt level is increasing after repayments, our extra revenue parked somewhere can be used to service it, if the Glazers deem it worth it. Simple economics, i.e., if our debt is increasing by 5%, but our extra revenue can generate 10% somewhere else, why would i put my extra money towards repayments? The Glazers would jus sit on the debt until a period where interest rate outweight potential revenue.
5) and if all else fails, we can sell the stadium

I fail to see how our club is dying because of the debt, there are just too many safety nets for the Glazers for now, as long as the club is successful

Anyway, above is jus my opinion and understanding, if you believe otherwise, so be it. Lets just talk football

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Dave Mack September 18, 2013

@xyz ... you said it all there, mate (From abc to xyz !)

That's why Fergie, who lived in the real world, always said we had "terrific owners". (he never said these words but no doubt thought "given the alternative"!)

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Marq September 18, 2013

Oh, and even if our club is debt free and earning crazy money, I still wouldnt like a 50~100m player in the team. Such disparities would not be good for the dressing room. I'd take a 7m Hernandez over a 50m Falcao anyday

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wayne September 18, 2013

Axeman sorry mate didn't realize you'd already posted the link

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wayne September 18, 2013

Let's call a spade a spade,money was leaving the club before the Glazers in the form of shareholder dividends,the same shareholders who allowed the Glazers to takeover in the first place.The main reason the Glazers are hated by some because the Glazers are yanks and Jewish

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Marq September 18, 2013

And guess what. The only way the Glazers can make a profit out of us is if the club stayed relatively successful whilst maintain our prudent ways. So in a way, they believed in Sir Alex and the traditions of the club, more than what can be said of some 'supporters'

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Dave Mack September 18, 2013

@Marq this link suppots what you just posted

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24143384

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Denton Davey September 18, 2013

Squeaky @ 11:37: "Not getting giddy or anything, but Fellaini & Carrick really did look like an old school United midfield. Side by side, distributing the ball, getting forward AND back. Brilliant to watch. But nobody should write off Clev or Ando, both are younger & competition/new CM tactics won’t hurt them."

Contradictory ? Assuming that MC16 and TheBigFella are healthy, then the game-time for YoungTom and FatBoyAndo will be marginal - cup ties and matches against DeadMenWalking.

Your half-point about "Old School United midfield" is very much to the point - why mess with something that has the potential to deal with the "midfield problems" by playing two guys who were part of the problem, not part of the solution ?

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MAN to the UNITED September 18, 2013

@ costas

I think you miss understood what I was saying. Before the game several people were giving Moyes stick for not playing Kagawa so far. (Although there were genuine reasons for this)
For him to then play and come out with a performance like that, he had a poor game and underperformed to what he is really capable of. U said it yourself he's short of match fitness as well. I know as much as the next person he is a great player, and at no point did I say Young should start over him.

So I'm not talking shit and to anyone that thinks Kagawa had anything more than an average game needs there eyes tested.

But to make my point clear Kagawa is a great player and I believe he will be a key to our success this year.

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chicho the lesbo September 18, 2013

Even though Chicho and Welbeck are "team comes first" types of players, it must give them a sinking feeling to see Wayne and RVP do so well together. It'll be difficult for either of them to get a sniff the way those two played last night.

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supasub September 18, 2013

For what its worth online poll which had scholes winning by some margin on the guardian site. Who was the best between Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard. It's now become a lot closer due to some lobbying on Liverpool sites posting links apparently so here goes:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/poll/2013/sep/17/who-was-best-scholes-gerrard-lampard
Don't let there be an injustice as it's now become almost neck and neck between scholse and stevie me all of a sudden with a day left.
C'mon lads.

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Jesr Olsen September 18, 2013

@Man to the United......If you think Kagawa is an average player then you're off your trolly.......Smashing player who posses skill and ability far greater than most in his position.......He had a poor game last night IMO but that hardly makes him average now does it....

He's struggling to find the form that he had at Dortmund I think most will agree but that will come good mark my words...

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montanared September 18, 2013

Thanks for all the business info guys, very important for those of us that really care about the club but don't know much about high finance to know whats happening. It seems controversy will always circle around United because they are such a big club. It has been nice to finally have controversy about which quality players to play where. after the transfer window silliness and the yellow and gold campaign, and the we need midfielders era- we pause and look at the squad--- in the last 2 years we have added Kagawa, Zaha, and Fellaini and RVP up front. Januzaj is looking like a new signing. I always want United to be successful but I don't think I want us to sign players who haven't proven anything for 40-50 million. Negredo, Fernandinho, Moura all cost more than RVP did. Seriously who the fuck are these guys? Yes the window was a bit of a debacle but as the dust settles we have to like what we see and and we've done it without playing the rent boy game. If a player doesn't love the club then you have to find another way of motivating him, DM has found a way to do that with Rooney, we have quality back up at every outfield position, our wingers look better already and after city we have a run of relatively easy games to start resting and rotating a bit. Emerging from a very difficult period looking pretty damn good. Now for City away-- no probs.

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xyz September 18, 2013

Sorry - one last post on the finances and then back to footie -

@Wayne - you're right about the shareholders who owned the club before, though not 100% of them - I was one of the many small shareholders and United fans who voted against the takeover. But once the Glazers got to a 90% stake they were able to force a buy-out of the remaining shares so we all lost our shares despite having voted against the takeover. I never resented them for it - they were just playing by the rules - but it still hurt to no longer own a piece of the club. Just wanted to make the point that some shareholders tried to do the right thing!

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zibbie September 18, 2013

hello

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FletchTHEMAN September 18, 2013

Decent discussion on TalkSport Drive right now.

Is Rooney World Class. Is he a settled United player.

http://talksport.com/radio/how-to-listen

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FletchTHEMAN September 18, 2013

Paul Scholes!

Gerrard is leading by a small margin in that poll lads. Get over and VOTE!

http://www.theguardian.com/football/poll/2013/sep/17/who-was-best-scholes-gerrard-lampard

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zibbie September 18, 2013

Read 1st hunddred and last 20 posts

Wayne spot on Yank Jew hate simple as.
Never once through all this hate for the G ownership group and I have asked 50xs if not them what? FUCKING NOTHING NO GOOD ANSEWRS JUST YANK JEW HATE COVERED IN LOYALTY!!! NAZI THINKEN!!
In the states we have what is called a hate crime. for gender, sexual preference, race, religion and ect. STR and his thought on 95% of people cheering Rooney? wtf He hangs with like minded folks all hate Rooney.

NBI a different lad worse not at KKK leavel of hangen niggers but even if he is black just a anology. A wolf rapped in sheeps clothing.

NBI in my past bus life a company would hire me to fix and stream line them. You would be givin his walking papers with severnce pay in 3-5 days. Good, not great at what he does and alway a negitive spin. A cancer to any orginization.

Love Moyes and FellHead!!!

Luv Rio and Vida verson 2013-2014!!

200 MUFC LEDGEND!!! BEST OFFENSIVE FORCE IN MUFC'S BEST RUN OF FORM IN CLUB HISTORY!!!! 3 CL FINAL ONE CL TITLE, 5 PL TITLES, ONE LOST ON GOAL DIFERENCIAL ANOTHER BY A BAD CALL OR 7 PL TITLES IN 7 YEARS!!! GASHED HEAD AND LEG FOR CLUB, ONE OF THE WORLDS BEST OFFENSIVE FORCES WILING TO PLAY LFB WHEN NEEDED!!!! BEST PLAYER ON ANY FEILD HE HAS STEPED ON THIS YEAR!!! WAZZA OUR #10 WAYNE RRROOOOOONNNNEEEEYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!