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LIVE BLOG: United vs PSV Eindhoven

November 25, 2015

Richard Cann

CONFIRMED LINE-UP: United vs PSV

Wilson joins Brighton on loan

149 Comments

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NairobiRed November 26, 2015

A few weeks ago, I had the displeasure of receiving abuse from some people here, for having the audacity, to admire one of the best coaches in Europe. People who never even watched Dortmund, came here calling me names and saying Klopp was a faker. I thought it'd take me at least a year because seeing the talent at Liverpool, I couldn't imagine Klopp doing much.
But, in just a little over a month, Liverpool are one of the most exciting sides in the EPL and have completely outplayed the two heavyweights of the EPL, while LVG continues to slow united to new levels of slow. Our manager sucks and is sucking the life out of the club, and has the gall to act like he is doing us fans a favor by putting us to sleep. For the 50th time LVG out.
If Chelsea manage to catch up I'll loose my marbles

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trevor knightsmith November 26, 2015

Nairobi,

This isn't the same talented side that got outplayed at home by Palace is it?

They are still in their honeymoon period, and things will be back to normal for them shortly, even we put three past them.

I must admit though, our club does seem pretty lifeless at the moment .

We have far more talent than the "L" side, it just isn't being put to the correct use

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Mark Reid November 26, 2015

part for me at any rate is you're watching the game and you know exactly what's going to happen,and if I fuckwit like me sees it surely other teams mustIts the same pattern everygame the ball comes to a complete slow down in the midfield,gets knocked around for a bit then breaks down in the final third,only to have our defense rescue us,then it starts all over again.

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Mirainashe November 26, 2015

The biggest fools are teams that play against this United side trying to defend. Any team. And I mean this. Any team that simply takes the game to United 4 out of five times will get a favorable result. Swansea figured this out very early and so did Allardyce last season. Especially teams that play with pace and look to play direct and take our midfield on. You can almost guarantee that such a team will win. You just need any level of PL or even top 5 Championship quality to do this. It's not just that we are easy to defend against. We are also easy to score against believe it or not. The problem is very few teams have ambition. Crystal Palace took the game to us at Selhurst Park and honestly DDG should have been paid double his wage for single handedly saving us from defeat. Even when Watford decided to go for it in the second half we were in trouble and again De Gea was on hand. Which is why I'm convinced that if Leicester decide to do what they did last season we will be in trouble. I hope other teams don't start getting ambitious because it would spell trouble

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United24 November 26, 2015

Going back to my point on Rooney, l'm not blaming him for anything. Yes he had a decent first half, but persisting with him has been a major part of our flaws this year, because it fucks up our system whether he is the slow striker, or an unnatural playmaker in what should be a straight forward 4-3-3.
I read somewhere that Rooney has not played three games, and was subbed off at least once, and during that time we scored 7-8 goals. Someone may check for accuracy.

The bottom line is we can't persist with two deep CM and have Felling or Rooney as a 10.
I provided our previous games as references
If you don't mind, consider last weeks classic as another reference, the difference between playing a forward as a ten or a playmaking midfielder as a ten.

Our first substitute should have been Mata or Pereira
The alternative is to play a

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United24 November 26, 2015

The alternative is to play an offensive minded number 8

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Mirainashe November 26, 2015

Nemesis

We have NOT failed to qualify for the next round. So I'm not sure what your complaint is about. We are playing the kind of football that is very logical for the kind of setup we have as well as the quality. We are not on the level of teams like Barcelona who can easily win any group they find themselves in with a minimum of 12 points. This is the CL. The highest level of quality football. Even the World Cup is not on that level. Being angry about United failing in the CL is not an example of not being "daft". It's just an emotion. I can't expect United being at the level we are at to defy logic especially given the current football at hand. So you can't call me daft for expecting a logical outcome. If you play like we do, you don't have any business being in the Champions League. That's why teams get booted out. It's a quality thing. If PSV can tactically outmaneuver us then we are simply not on the right tactical level required. If our players can't take their few chances then it is logical that we should go home. What is illogical is expecting a low quality team to progress in the CL. Only luck can determine that. And no one "expects" anything from luck. If you depend on luck it can go either way.

Teams like Southampton or even top of the league leaders like Leicester don't pull their hair out after every season if they fail to win the league. They are not on that level. We are not at the kind of level where it is expected that we should win a group with CSKA Moscow,Wolfsburg and PSV. A rich history doesn't make it a given that you can simply bypass the necessary stages of development. That's why AC Milan are where they are right now even if they used to be top contenders in years gone by.

For me if you have potential to reach the quarter final stage convincingly then that's when I'm bothered about not qualifying. Otherwise I'm not bothered. I don't want to get to the second round by hook and crook and be blasted by one of the super clubs thereby earning them a free pass to the latter stages. What's the point of that? Earning more money? I'd rather be relegated at the group stages playing the kind of football that you know we will be stronger next season than rely on luck and witchcraft to make it to the latter stages. Progress is the name of the game. And time is the rule. We have to bide our time like everyone else.

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trevor knightsmith November 26, 2015

Mirain,

If we can't be expected to get past the likes of CSKA Moscow,Wolfsburg and PSV, we might as well pack it in now.

Surely our expectations must be higher than that ?, if not, then radical changes must be made.

Obviously we do not have a God given right to progress, but after the money spent, surely the knock out stages was not too much to ask.

All is not yet lost , but I am not confident.

What we need is a convincing win shortly to raise our spirits

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United24 November 26, 2015

Football is simple.
You can't set up your team to create few chances and expect to take them all the time.
When you create many chances, the probability of scoring more increases
No team can be clinical all the time.

Our philosophy is based on the assumption that if we keep the ball, we may score and the other team may not.

0-0 and 1-0 is the natural result from this
Most other shorelines are aberrations or outliers

SIMPLE

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United24 November 26, 2015

*scoreline

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ashtheking November 26, 2015

Just because you are not on the level of barca doesnt mean you should stop expecting from the team. What a stale logic would it be, hey you are not among the best so why are you even bothered to win. Call me naive , arrogant or whatever , we have the capability to beat PSV, Moscow and Wolfsburg. Apart from arsenal , no other top team have convincingly beaten us. Whether anyone likes it or not, hook or crrok we are second in the league and could be first if we beat the table toppers this weekend.

Some act AS if we are a relegation fighting club who shouldnt be keeping high ambition. If we go by that route , we will never be successful and just be another arsenal. If we beat Wolfsburg we desreve to be in top 16, good or bad level.

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NefariousVirtuoso88 November 26, 2015

I feel so drained watching United is painful. The thought of this for the rest of the season makes my brain lurch extending this beyond that is unthinkable. The same problems persist defensive slow rigid play. The refusal to drop Wayne Rooney despite him offering nothing. Ander Herrera is the most important player at the club. Van Gaal's decisions during the PSV game were laughable. Please appoint Pep Guardiola in the summer.

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ashtheking November 26, 2015

"Imagine if we had been placed in the Arsenal and City group. We would have been done and dusted by now"

Yes thats why we are ahead of them in the league.

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dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT November 26, 2015

United 24 has hit the nail on the head. You cannot blame players for missing chances when the team BARELY creates any. It is ridiculous to expect close to 100% chance conversion rate when you only create about 2 to 3 chances a game at home. This is why you have to set up your team to create as many as can be created because it will increase the probability of one or two going in.

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WeAreUnitedd November 26, 2015

@dannysoya we get it man, you are not a happy lad, you know what me neither, but for fucks sake, yesterday we fluffed so many chances, help us God. it would have been 4-0 in the first half

now your argument will be so did PSV, but they did not have any clear cut chances like we did. The second half can be blamed on LVG simply put, on this I agree.

@ash

I read your comments in nd58 and here, and we are i nthe same wavelenght, we are not happy, but we are nto sayign stupid shit like, "imagine if we had been placed in this group or so" or "we will be in europa" "welcome europa" "leicester will kick ass"

I don't get these guys. I am not blind, I understand that we are not top notch, and maybe after the lats group game and the leicester game we suddenly drop to 4th and to europa. Do I believe it to be so, hell no.

When we had pressure mounting like last season when we had that crazy run, we tend to come up. and we will! I believe in this system, the problem is some stupid tweaks and favoritism. I understand that.

2 wins away, we are top of the league and to the knock-out phases.

Ifd we want fluid football, Herrera comes into play, also the injured Shaw does not help the situation, since Rojo and Darmian are not good attacking wise.

So when our wingers need support they have none, I am very disappointed in Darmian attacking wise, defensive wise he's been great, exept the blimps.

Remember our attacking trio was Memphis 21 Martial 19 and Lingard 22/23, how many of those players have the experience of the PL and still we give a shift. NOw it's the rest who needs to help these guys and it starts from Rooney or dropping Rooney to play Herrera there. anyway

these are my thoughst, not trying to be a superfan since everyone have their opinions, but how it is all doom and gloom well I don't know.

I'll wait after the wolfsburg game to give my thoughts on the CL.

peace

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WeAreUnitedd November 26, 2015

@dwayne I see you, you put some great comments.

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Gentlekez10 November 26, 2015

I was expecting a total meltdown here but thank God is just logical expressions and reasonable opinions, though is pathetic there are few who are still defending his substitutions just to say he does not criticize his manager
I was discussing with my cousin(barca fan) how we are arguing about if Neymar will b a hit and scoring goals in EPL if we poach him from them. He smiled and said the argument should be if he will not be used as a central defense partner to Smalling since he can use the ball. Enough said
Nothing stops starting with mcnair and Smalling and blind in midfield since schweinteinger is not supposed to play 90mins, then maybe 2nd half he can come in and help stabilize things.
Rooney starting was ok but with his 2nd half display am still baffled he was left on the pitch and Mata on the bench.
Squad rotation and not just team selection and substitution Is also big issue with LVG

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Yusuf November 26, 2015

Alot of the people on this blog have to take a long hard look at themselves. A fan that truly loves and supports a club cannot afford to be blind, cannot allow their standards to drop. Look at Liverpoool today, Is that how you us want to end up, look at forest, is that how you want to end up. We are headed in Liverpools direction.
A good measuring stick are the Fans in the stadiums and the EX Profeesionals that have actually played for the club in question.
The Fans are chanting ATTACK,ATTACK,ATTACK. We are manchester united!!!!! That is indicative of a club moving in the opposite direction of their traditions. We have some of the most loyal fans in the world, yet their leaving the stadium early during a draw and sections are chanting for us to attack!
Paul Scholes is a man after my heart. I loved him as a player and i love him just as much as pundit. If anyone has earned the right to give brutally honest criticism of the players and the coach ... its him and his points are spot on. How many ex players NOT affiliated with the club have not criticized Van Gaal? Pundits, ex players, GM's, Coaches, current players are all criticizing us.

Is LVG trying to rebuild the club from the ground up. If he is, then he damn sure needs more that the 3 years. Why change what doesnt need changing? For this i blame the Heirachy at OT. Yes, he had a track record of winning and promoting youth. He also had a track record of being fired. We were fine, we just needed a manager capable of following the ethos of Sir Alex
1. Promote Youth
2. Secure the best british players and top international talent
3. Play attacking football
4. WIN

like i've always said, i dont mind loosing if we're playing attack minded football but to draw or lose while our style is boring and unflaterring, i cant stand.

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Yusuf November 26, 2015

If Martial is good enough to start then hes old enough to receive criticism. I rate the boy highly and LIKE memphis as well, we need to be patient. I had called for him to coe on from the bench and put Mata in behind Wayne Rooney. It cant be anynore less productive than the forward line right now. The pressure LVG is putting on Martial by starting him every opportunity is ridculous.

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cr November 26, 2015

Agreed Martial shouldn't start every match. Not because he's been playing badly, but because he should be given more time to develop before starting every game.

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dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT November 26, 2015

LOL are you joking? In the situation we are in you want us to bench Martial just so he can have time to develop? How else is he going to develop other than playing? What does sitting on the bench do for Martial's ability. When you spend that much money on a 19 year old you better play him as many times as you can.

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Lims November 26, 2015

Err no. Martial starts for me, only forward we have that can run in behind and is comfortable with the ball in tight spaces.
Its been drummed all season long, we're just not fast enough. Some sub's have been baffling but honestly we'd be in a much better place if wed only quicken things up. Doesn't help shoehorning players to not just positions but also roles.

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Lims November 26, 2015

Cr

That's also true, in must win games, provided he's fit, he starts. Thought he was a little naive last night myself

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Yusuf November 26, 2015

Position--------------1st Choice--------------2nd Choice

Striker------------------Rooney-----------------Martial

LW-----------------------Depay-------------------Young

RW---------------------Lingard------------------Perreira

No10---------------------Mata--------------------Fellaini

CM----------------------Herrera----------------Schweinst

DM---------------------Schneiderlin------------Carrick

I only put Rooney as first choice because "King Louis" won't drop him.. So ideally if everone were fit. .......

------------------------------Martial-------------------------
Memphis--------------------------------------------Lingard
-------------------------------Mata---------------------------
--------------Morgan-------------------Herrera------------
Shaw--------Jones------------------Smalling-----Darmian
------------------------------De Gea---------------------------

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holytrinity7910 November 26, 2015

it's always the same on this blog,people who don't come on here for weeks or months always show up after every bad result.We all know the style of play,everyone knows it doesn't do much for me but last night Utd created enough chances to win and Lingard missed a sitter,the same against Middlesbrough we missed tons of chances.If fans want youth to play then going to have to realize there will be games like this that should've been won
People say they don't want Ronnie back with a player like Ronnie in the team it makes 100% difference because he buries half chances more than he misses,we don't have that right now.People say we don't create enough chances,in CL Sir Alex always played cagey football the difference in winning and losing the CL is taking the half chances that come along.Against Bayern Welbeck and Rooney missed a handful a chances otherwise Utd would've won,the season before RVP and Rooney against Madrid
like i said it's always a overreaction on this blog and any excuse to put the boot in.There is no reason Utd can't beat Wolfsberg so why don't you wait till were actually eliminated before asking for LVG's head

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Lims November 26, 2015

Well we could set up like that and still have the same problems. The game plan as a whole needs tweaking.
Saying that, its a shame we can't see a 433 set up, a huge chunk of offensive players we have aren't suited, martial and Memphis can fit but what do you do with mata, Rooney? Alps take in consideration Memphis is struggling to adapt. Even worse is the unavailability of Herrera, I'd partner blind with Morgan or if basti has to play, go with a 3 man midfield

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Dan Young November 26, 2015

the thing that frustrates me is that we often see a reshuffle in some capacity, but with the same outcome. and that for me goes down to the philosophy.

SAF used to change his system or way of playing in order to play to his players strengths, LVG demands players learn to play his way or they are out. it makes no sense atall

our defence and midfield is great, they completely extinguish the opposition, we barely concede and, contrary to some on here, they do get the ball forward quickly. schmidfield were constantly spraying diagonal balls out to the wingers and strikers, it was impressive and exciting (up until the subs and fatigue crept in)

its our attack that is our issue. and im not blaming the players. any form of expression is coached out of them. there has to be a system in place for the midfielders and defenders as they have to work as a unit to stop opposition, i just wish LVG would release the 3 attackers and let them do what the hell they want to do. then, if were 60 minutes into a game and it isnt happening for us then you switch one of the poorer performers in the front 3 for another attacker who can go out and express himself.

a coached attack is predictable, an attack that are full of expression and risk will scare you .. best example, barca. im not expecting the level of barca, but it shows if you let 3 attackers off their leash and let them express themselves they will be dangerous. none of the impressive barca attack is coaching, the coaches set up a solid base that just has to get the ball to the front 3. alot like our front 3 of rooney, ronaldo and tevez in 07/08

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Lims November 26, 2015

Wonder what giggsy thinks about all this. Is there a media gag on him because he's been as quiet as a mouse. I'm not expecting headline quotes that are DM orgasmic but I'd like to know what he thinks.
Its been reported that there could be some friction with LVG and to be honest I'm inclined to think so. Theyre barely seen saying a word to each other - at least on camera.
need something to get a little extra from the boys, think thats what we're missing the most, remember games like last night with SAF, difference is we'd most likely find a goal from somewhere.

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Umeweni Ifeanyi November 26, 2015

I feel letting the forward players express themselves would cause too many mistakes as they are young and inexperienced compared to the Barca attackers who would get at least 50% of whatever they attempt right. But with game time and experience the younger players would improve, infact I'd say if Depay who seems to prefer playing central was as adventurous as Lingard yesterday we would have seen a better game. We still haven't conceded from open play for how long now? I saw Martial try to take on defenders yesterday so I don't think the attack is that stiff. When our attack is fixed we would surprise a lot of people.

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Umeweni Ifeanyi November 26, 2015

Personally I would have liked to see is play the formation we started with against Watford with Martial in place of Lingard and Rooney in place of Herrera. Or the same formation we played yesterday but with Martial on the left and Depay central as Martial would be more of a threat than Depay on that wing while Depay can offer more physical strength up top and arguably better link up play.

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ThymmEde November 26, 2015

It was a very painful thing to see my own darling club mess up my accumulator

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Yusuf November 26, 2015

James Wilson on Loan to brighton.. LVG is a clown..

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trevor knightsmith November 26, 2015

yusuf,

We've scored five goals in our last seven games, and he loans out a striker !

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WeAreUnitedd November 26, 2015

@trevor mate you have started to sound bitter too, what's up man! btw I read that you had some health issues, everything cool?

as for wilson, how many good plays did he make when got the chance/how many chances did he get on those last seven games/he got injured against arsenal when got his chance or whoever we played

I doubt that wilson would rescue us with goals, the lad just does not get a look in against wilson and rooney uptop. simply put. I get the frustration but he would not get a look in against those too, and the best thign is to loan him out.

hopefully he gets back stronger and shows character, he's brilliant when on form! only 20.

peace

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WeAreUnitedd November 26, 2015

against Martial***

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WeAreUnitedd November 26, 2015

I just got it,

in this system where Lvg plays ,Wilson is not experienced enough, he last played against Middlesbough at home and he was lost.

anyway. peace and have fun.

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NairobiRed November 26, 2015

Here's what I hope doesn't happen, united get kicked out of Europe, which upsets fans, but the Glazers will probably ask WTF but will not react as united will still be 1-3 points off the top of the EPL table. The defensive play will lead less goals conceded but the lack of attacking nuance will lead to multiple draws, which will build up the frustration at OT. As the results catch up to the poor performance , the leaders will begin to pull away and the backbenchers will get closer, leading to more frustration. The descent will build up to a level where fans cannot contain it any longer and I can see another plane over OT.
The team will continue to play poorly, caught between a manager who insists on lifeless, turgid football, and an OT crowd booing every sideways pass, which will lead to more bad results. As position four becomes a gamble, the united hierarchy, having sacked David Moyes, a man they had swore to stand by, will have no problem replacing LVG.
In comes the most Sir Alex like manager out there, Carlo Ancelloti. There is no way Pep would agree to touch this current mess, he seems to prefer a stable structure with all the major pieces set, and all he has to do is customize it to bring perfection, he is set for man city.
I would like to see what Someone can do with a powerful money train behind him. He seems very capable too.

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Lims November 26, 2015

Nairobi bitter

Yeah I'm sure you'd like that. Never go full retard.
You have absolutely nothing to justify that kind of stance. You sound like a complete joke

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Lims November 26, 2015

Okay, retracting that comment ,i didn't read properly.
Thought I read "Here's what I hope happens".....
Still that's some imagination you have there

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holytrinity7910 November 26, 2015

Utd would have to have a complete free fall in the league for LVG to get fired,he will not get fired for getting knocked out,which I'm not expecting anyway
Honestly mate all you do is come on here big up other clubs and put us down,if you hate us so much go be a Dipper or City fan,you love both of those clubs

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Dan Young November 26, 2015

by the way, as far as the 'we barely create any chances' goes.

yesterday we created 11 chances and drew 0-0

PSG created 8 chances and won 5-0.

obviously that dosnt tell the whole story. chances can be more clear cut then others etc. but lets not forget the first half where we were very good until the final third, something i feel mata in place of rooney would have changed

i just am frustrated with the line ups and subs that LVG chooses. i mean we started pre season with smalling nowhere to be seen, we started the season with rooney partnering depay as strikers, and again, i get the feeling attackers are being over coached

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NairobiRed November 27, 2015

@Lims
I need my imagination, otherwise watching utd would just be a waste of time.

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United24 November 27, 2015

Dan,
I am glad you clarified the statement
I did not see eleven chances. I wonder who was keeping score. Must have been bored and chucked any adventure into the final third as a chance.
There was only one clear cut chance to Lingard and a few more half chances.
Even LVG pointed to only that chance post match

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Nemesis November 27, 2015

Hypothetically consider this -

If we play L'pool at Wembley tmrw and both teams have no injuries and each manager is free to choose whatever team he wants, to get a whatever result he wants, what do you think will happen?

I'm not naive enough to say Klopp is a better manager than lvg. It's too soon to say that. But the bloke has been here for hardly a month or so, and their progress has been staggering. Call it honeymoon period or not,but L'pool with that squad and all their problems, have no right to be playing the way they are and getting those results.

I always loved Klopp but I was sure he'd not be able to stop the decline at a L'pool so soon. Instead that son of a gun is pulling ahead at full steam. The jury's still out whether their hard running high pressing style will last all season, but hell.. For now the fans are having a treat.

I'm just trying to say.. How the hell did the guy turn things around so soon? I'm pretty sure even the L'pool board didn't expect such a positive change so soon. And I'm not just talking about results, I'm mainly talking about their football.

As SAF said, it's frightening to think what Klopp could build at the club if things go right from him. I'm beginning to see what Fergie saw. Shit.. I would have loved Klopp to one day manage Manchester United, but that never going to happen anymore.
Hope Giggs is the solution.

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trevor knightsmith November 27, 2015

Nemesis,

Don't forget that LVG has a 100% record against the dippers .

Long may it continue !

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holytrinity7910 November 27, 2015

Dippers sucked shit against Bordeaux it was only a Benteke dive and penalty that got them the win,prior to the City win lost at home to Palace,i love how the Klopites highlight Dippers good games to make a point and forget mentioning all the rest

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trevor knightsmith November 27, 2015

H,

They've been coming out with the same bollocks for 25 years.

I really despise that side and their supporters !

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holytrinity7910 November 27, 2015

Under Klopp Dippers 3 w 1 l 2 d in the league so 11 out of 18pts,yet people are making out he's turned the Dippers around,they've had a couple of decent results beat the rent boys when quite frankly everybody was and beat City who have been struggling for weeks

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Dan Young November 27, 2015

also klopps high intensity football does well for you for a bit, but look over history in competitive leagues. eras are created with solid foundations which is what LVG is bringing. he isnt looking for immediate success (although he would like some!), he is building a solid foundation of defensive strength and youth which will benefit us for years to come.

look in the modern era of football, in the top leagues the main 'dominant' sides you would say are juve, barca and united - all have that foundation.

immediate success can fairly easily be achieved with high investment and strong tactics, id rather another era to be honest

that dosnt take away from the fact LVG has his downfalls, but iv mentioned them more then enough