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Manchester United News

LIVE BLOG: West Ham vs United

February 8, 2015

Daniel Stapleton

Follow @danstapleton89 on Twitter.

STATS: How is Rooney keeping Herrera out of the team?

LvG: My players showed great spirit

464 Comments

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Tommy February 9, 2015

Ash - success in 95? We lost the league in 95, so no your history!!! Your missing the point lvg has been given 150+ million this summer including obe player for 30+milluon who he doesn't even play, and the performances hace even shocking, why would they give him a load more cash? The glazers would be within their rights to say you've had fortunes prove yourself with these players before getting any more money.

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Marko Maric February 9, 2015

I think LVG want evrrybody happy so he play Falcao, RvP, Rooney in the middle...Carragher and Yorke said Falcao and RVP can t play together, they dont move so it is eqsy to play against them. We have to decide what we want with strikers. Roonry takeing place to someone in the middle, wich is stupid. I just pray that we finish top4.

In Germany you have basic contract + bonuses. In PL if you warming a bench you are getting the same as player who playing every game.

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Tommy February 9, 2015

Ash - it's the performances and total negativity and fuck all to do with the result, de gea is keeping us in contention for top 4, time for the rest of the expensively assembled squad to step up!!

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Marko Maric February 9, 2015

@ash 1:59 spot on. When you buy players, no matter how classy they are, there is no garanty that they will fit in. I m sure Glazers will give him money. They are aware that SAf the genius is gone and those times with low spending are gone.
Ash we didn t say that LVG dont give freedom to players, but that WE THINK that this is a problem why players dont play their best. We are guessing what would be reason for such a strike force not showing their best.

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Robin_Rolle February 9, 2015

DeMaria was way off today, the strikers wiffed 4 chances and when RVP put his left foot through the ball right to the keepers belly? Lifeless beet to 50-50 balls all day.

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Tommy February 9, 2015

Now against Burnley, can we please play at a fast tempo instead of the slow deliberate possession based game

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ashtheking February 9, 2015

Tommy

Yes we won the league in 95-96 season. Thne same season when Hansen famously said you win nothing with kids. Yeah for an outsider I know a history or two mate.

Yes glazers would be within the rights to not give cash, but they have not said that. Last time I checked Lvg is our manager so your prediction of them not giving any cash to bring seems baseless. Glazers, woodward said they need top 4 and lvg is trying to do that. So tell me qa good reason why would they not give cash to lvg if he finishes in top 4.

Yes de gea is keeping us in top 4, same way sanchez has kept arsenal in top 4 contention, same way harry kane has kept spurs in top 4. So what if every team has A STAR player. Yes sad that ours is a keeper but is that LVGs fault. We have a keeper who is world class. Simple, nothing to ponder.

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United_till_I_die February 9, 2015

I said a week or so ago Falcao or RVP need to be sacrificed for the good of the team but I' now think BOTH of them need to be dropped immediately so we can at a more balanced starting 11.

This Rooney instead of Herrera in midfield experiment is impacting the whole team and our style of play. Today's game was crying out for Someone in midfield who could control the tempo and retain possession. Someone with the skill and footballing brain to unlock a packed defense and Until LvG stops playing favorites with certain players it's going to continue.

Rooney and Wilson up front with blind and Herrera in central midfield roles is so fucking obvious Stevie wonder could see it.

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Tommy February 9, 2015

Just messing ash lol, im still having nightmares about west ham 95 lol ruined my childhood lol

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ashtheking February 9, 2015

Marko

our strike force is not showing their best could be because we are not playing as a team. We defend as one team but while attacking we attack as individuals. LvG has focussed more on defence after the leicester defeat that he forgot about attack. Have you looked at our corners, fucking shit. I would prefer Jones to take corners than this shit. LvG needs to be a bit risky and focus on attack but thing is that may cost us top 4. Do we want that. I bet same fans will then be moaning ohh lvg had one job and he failed in that. Attacking footbaal can come later let us get top 4 first

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Tommy February 9, 2015

Ash - we are far more reliant on de gea than arsenal are on Sanchez, or spurs are with Kane, litterly none of our other players are performing, none whatsoever. P.s. Your not an outsider, your a proper fan so dobt say your an outsider because your not!

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ashtheking February 9, 2015

Tommy

Truth to be told mate I am myself not enjoying this crap football but i have very low expectation this season. I think we couldnt afford one more season without champions league. Look at clubs like liverpool, ac milan , ajax , inter milan all living in past glories. I dont want us to be like that.

The reason I am giving benefit of doubt to lvg is because he knows what eh is doing. It sjust that something is not clicking in the attack. Why would he " a manager who became famous for his attacking style" would intentionally play boring football. Yes he is playing safe but then cant blame him. Whenever I see his face during the match I can see him being irritated , but this is where lvg's test is, try to figure whats wrong. I think things will start to grow next season once we are back in champs league. But honestly this season we have to live with this.

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Tommy February 9, 2015

Marko - said it all summer, lack of pace upfront id s big problem and it's nit been resolved, for all welbecks faults, at least he could run in behind which created chances, rvp and falcao dont like running which is costing the team, like him or not tbe team would play better with a welbeck in it

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ashtheking February 9, 2015

Clattenburg loves to give red cards to our players. Lvg and paddy crerand said shaw got the ball and it was not a yellow card. How many red cards have received this season, sad he will miss the next game.

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Tommy February 9, 2015

Ash - it looked like it was a fair decision, id need to look at it again but looked a sully tackle when on a yellow, no complaints really

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ashtheking February 9, 2015

Yeah even I thought the same, but having listened to lvg and paddy I saw it again andit did seem it was a tad harsh. But knowing cllattenburg I am not surprised

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Marko Maric February 9, 2015

@ash "something is not clicking in the attack" - exactley, best way to subscribe it
@tommy, but i just dont get it, why then we "bought" Falcao? We sent Hernandez to RM, he has also speed

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wayne barker February 9, 2015

When LVG came to Utd he said he'd bring back the Utd way,which to me are marauding wingers open attacking Football,half our problems are we're so fucking narrow and i'm so sick of the formation bollocks.Sir Alex loved wingers and strikers,everyone talks about us being boring,watch most fucking teams nowadays.
Dan complains about us being boring then in the next breath says Utd should only play with one striker and starts using Rent Boys as a example
Seriously if Utd are going that route put a gun to my head now

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wayne barker February 9, 2015

It also seems to me Di Maria is getting played in every position instead of the one which would be his strongest and that's a fucking winger

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ThymmEde February 9, 2015

RVP and Falcao both have injury plagued pasts, and they getting too old for the EPL. They will never form a formidable goal scoring partnership, I just don't see it. I don't know why LVG is so blind to see this

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trevor knightsmith February 9, 2015

Getting lots of stick in the papers today, and rightly so .

Di Maria seems to be the main target in the firing line, closely followed by LVG .

It is difficult to put up any argument for them really .

Against Burnley I would try what Wayne is suggesting, how about playing the players in their preferred and proper positions, it must be an improvement surely ? .

The way things are going we might as well change our name to De Gea United !

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Marq February 9, 2015

My observations, it all looks like a cycle of problems.

Starting with our strikers. Both Rvp & Falcao are finishers, they don't drop deep to collect the ball nor are they good at holding up the ball. Add that to their lack if pace, they have to play right up front next to the CBs. The gap between midfield and strikers was empty.

Now this gap is suppose to be fill by Di Maria & Rooney. You could say at least Di Maria was trying, but everytime he collected the ball, he has at least 2 midfielders to content with. Rooney was no where, just buzzing around. So for Di Maria to get more space, the wingers/fullbacks need to contribute. Out of the trio of Januzaj, Shaw & Valencia tasked to provide width, Valencia is the only one who does it consistently, but as we all know, he has forgotten how to cross. Shaw made a few runs early on, but very poor delivery, after that he didn't bother anymore

I wonder what it would take to drop either one of our strikers and play Rooney up front, so that he may fill the gap between midfield and attack, and revert Di Maria to a left winger. Also, Shaw needs a kick up his arse to keep overlapping and work on his delivery so that Di Maria have more room. And of course, a midfielder to partner Blind, even if it is just Fellaini. Rooney in midfield just offers nothing except legs

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Sparkz February 9, 2015

@Tommy - bang on about Welbeck, this was the case last season as well. I got pelters when I said RVP or Rooney should be dropped for Welbeck, everyone was just looking at goalscoring stats. Anybody with one eye could see that the TEAM looked 10x better with Welbeck

@Wayne -I don't think LVG believes we have 2 top class wingers (and he's right, we don't). Di Maria is the only one. That's why we're linked with Bale and Depay. If we can buy anither good quality wingers then we'll see that again. Coz Lvg throughout his career has always played with wingers.

Also I think he's trying to fit in all our central players and strikers so no room for widemen.

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Sparkz February 9, 2015

Also I find it funny that earlier in the season there was a period where we were playing decent but not getting the results. And plenty of people on here were saying "doesn't matter about performances, it's a results business"

Well now, however we're doing it, we are getting the results. We are in the top 4 (which was the aim) and still in the Cup.

Yet now the same people are complaining about performances?? Do you want it all, performances and results, in LVG-s first season? In a League in which very few teams are able to consistently produce good performances and results?

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FBr David Lee February 9, 2015

yup sparkz, results first.

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trevor knightsmith February 9, 2015

FBR,

So you would rather watch yesterday's dross , where we were lucky to get a point ,than the be entertained?

We are playing some of the most dismal football I can recall .

LVG wants to think himself lucky that he is hired by the Glaziers and not Abramovich .

I'm not calling for his head, or anything like it, but he wants to buck his ideas up, the team are running round like headless chickens.

One defeat in 17 matches doesn't tell the whole story, unless that is you really do want to put results over performance.

When was the last time we were thrilled by a United performance? and after all, that is what United are meant to be about !

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Marq February 9, 2015

Yes, results over performances, anyone who says otherwise is day dreaming. Especially so this season. I don't care how we get back into the CL, just do it.

Its a myth that we have always played entertaining football. 08/09 was the last year we did, and for many years leading up to that, it wasnt pretty too. Sir Alex's last year was a good watch not because we played pretty, but because the players all showed tremendious spirit coming back when we went behind

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trevor knightsmith February 9, 2015

Marq,

It is not at at all, United's reputation is built on attacking football .

And to quote you " Sir Alex’s last year was a good watch" and " because the players all showed tremendous spirit "

They are certainly not good to watch now !

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Marq February 9, 2015

So your point being? That just because this stop start season that we went in without preparations and on the back of a horrible season, doesn't match one of our best seasons, we should be deemed a failure?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is alright, but things are changing, and it needs time. For this season, its a transition, CL is the aim, and we are in course, anything else is a bonus.

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Jose February 9, 2015

just been wondering why most guys think the solution to our lack of goals is dropping rvp/falcao and moving rooney up top .
Part of the reason why rvp/falcao are so shy in front of goal is rooney's presence in midfield. If he not losing possession he is busy the ball backwards/sideways or trying the Hollywood pass to valencia.No attempt to play through balls for the strikers.
Assuming the majority have their way and Rooney takes a spot upfront with rvp or falcao rested.Means we will have herrera , the closest thing we have to a box to box midfielder improving our play in the final third and as a result more chances for the strikers.Rooney might score a few but tht doesn't hide the fact it was his initial inclusion in midfield that denied the strikers much needed service .A striker is only as good as the chances teammates create for him.Unless you are messi and you can weave your way magically through tackles and finish with aplomb.
Personally I rate rvp and falcao above Rooney in their ability to score based on past seasons. This season basically all players have been under par with the exclusion of de gea and maybe Rojo so wont include this season's performance s.
Like scott had said earlier , rooneys status could be holding the team back in tht he is keeping herrera out of the team.
if lvg has any balls he should select the strikers on merit.If Wilson scores more regularly than Falcao or Rooney or rvp then he should start . Doesn't matter if rvp is his mate or rooney is captain. If you dont perform the the bench should beckon.

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Dan Young February 9, 2015

wayne i never said i want us to play like chelsea atall. i said we are more boring then chelsea. the only observation i made about chelsea i also made about 11 other teams which is all the top teams in europe have 1 striker play for them. and then 2 wide attackers supplying width either in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3.

like fuck do i want us to play like chelsea

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dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT February 9, 2015

LOL Ash. Address me directly if you want to trash me. In your opinion NOBODY can criticize Van Gaal. We all have to be robots and accept the absolute shite we're playing. Do the players look like they're playing freely to you? FFS. Just because I criticize the manager doesn't mean I want him fired. How difficult is that to understand?

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wayne barker February 9, 2015

my bad then Dan

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Sparkz February 9, 2015

Even 08/09 we played some horrid football. That was the season of 1-0 wins, only reason we won the League was our run of clean sheets. Liverpool finished second but scored more goals than us.

In Fergie's last 5 seasons we only played consistently good football in the second half of 2010/11 and the first half of 2012/13.

If in a year's time we are still playing like this then LVG is in trouble. But this season ALL that matters is results. CL football.

The romantics on here might think otherwise, but that is the plain and simple truth.

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wayne barker February 9, 2015

Sparkz it was LVG that said he was going to bring back Utd Football when he first started,he said teams like Utd have to win but do it in a certain style,his words mate not mine.I one of the very few on here that rarely criticizes our play but yesterday wasn't a question of playing dull Football and controlling the game we got badly outplayed for large parts of the game.I didn't understand why Fellaini didn't start against a team that's tailor made for him,i've no idea why Di Maria is playing #10 ahead of Mata and Rooney and personally i think were missing Young down that left hand side.He's been one of Utd's best players all year he also gives the work rate and tenacity Januzaj doesn't have.
Why not try having Young and Di Maria as wingers,i want to see the best of Di Maria and to me that should be as a wide man,i've never liked Rooney playing right or left even when Sir Alex did it.LVG has to make a decision and stop trying to accommodate both RVP and Falcao

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wayne barker February 9, 2015

i'm also not one of the romantics who think Utd having been playing free flowing Football for the last 5 or so seasons.We have in patches first part of Sir Alex's last season was the most entertained i've been in watching Football for years but a lot then attacked the team for being to open,so people can't have it both ways.Me i hate narrow Football imo it's as boring as fuck,i love marauding wingers and open football,outscoring teams is much more fun to watch than 70% possession and winning 1-0

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Dan Young February 9, 2015

wayne - thats all good mate

from reading back through the conversations on here. it seems everyones in agreement but just argueing about what is the situation. the strong opinion seems to be LVG is dissappointing and underperforming, but he still has our support. the small arguements/debates going on seem to be to do with players underpeforming etc

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Sparkz February 9, 2015

Wayne I agree that the football needs to be better and LVG is responsible for that, especially as he said it himself. And I'm sure he knows we need to play better

But I'm also happy to wait for that to come. We're at a stage where we can't afford another season out of the CL, so "Utd football' can wait until next season. By then the players would have adapted to his philosophy more as well.

Agreed that Fellaini should have played from the start. With regards to Mata, it's a question of speed away from home. I've already said that we need to ditch this Falcao + RVP partbership. We can get away with it in some home games when teams sit deep but in away matches when they pressure us, we need pace. If Mata had played yesterday it would have been even worse as we'd be wayy too slow.

Di Maria has got stick for his performance but I thought he actually did okay, carried the ball well. What I hated was that he bottled out of challenges on more than 1 occasion. Him, Januzaj and to an extent Falcao are too soft for my liking.

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Dan Young February 9, 2015

for anyone interested di marias current conversion rates from chances to goals is 5% .. but he uis the best at creating chances in our entire squad creating a chance every 43.2 minutes

(this makes the choice to play him as a striker even more ridiculous)

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Dan Young February 9, 2015

interestingly wayne rooney as a midfielder creates a chance every 51.4 minutes .. as a striker is once every 77.9 minutes

falcao - 72 minutes
RVP - 78.8 minutes

(indicates strikers are having barely any oportunities during the games to do anything with the ball wether its a goal or a chance created)

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dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT February 9, 2015

Strikers like Falcao and RVP need SPACE to operate. I've been saying this since the season started. Falcao has NEVER excelled when playing in a front two.At all the clubs where he made his name, he made it as a lone striker surrounded with movement and speed. Porto, Atletico, Monaco.

Same thing with RVP. At Arsenal, RVP only came into his own when Henry moved to Barcelona. He became the alpha dog, the lone striker and that was when he produced two great seasons with Arsenal. Similarly at United, RVP was a lone striker. People like to say well he was partnered with Rooney but when you look at that 2012/2013 season well, Rooney was basically playing as an attacking midfielder leaving Van Persie upfront to do damage.

Van Gaal is trying to make these strikers who they are not. CHOOSE ONE and bench the other. I mean this man has been in management for over 30 years and he's still worrying about trying to accommodate players? Really? Lord knows Fergie would have made a decision on Falcao and RVP ages ago.

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ashtheking February 9, 2015

Danny

For fuck sake, where did it Trash you. Did I even address you. I was chatting with tommy/Gary/marko. Where did I mention we cannot criticise. Did you even read my comments or just come here to blabber. I said myself LVG has made things complicated but when people come and say he is stupid, he has an agenda against Herrera , sorry I don't buy this bull shit. We wanted back 4, he has given that , still nothing has changed , you know what that makes fans like you and me look foolish. Maybe in coming weeks he will play Herrera and I hope that makes our play entertaining. But according to me the real problem is not that it's that we are not attacking as a team. We are defending as a team but while attacking we attack as individuals. It will take time, and I will keep on saying our goal is top 4, entertainment can come next season.

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Mirainashe February 9, 2015

I think it's not even up for debate. Ferguson last seasons were not entertaining. Maybe the first half of the season we beat Arsenal 8-2. And some of the comeback performances of his final season. The best football I saw in my time watching United was 2006-2008. That was great football. Beyond that it was more functional than anything. I've been following this forum since around 2007 and one of the key complaints here was "sideways" football of Carrick and Scholes. I don't remember Carrick having more than three or so supporters throughout his career at United. So it's very strange to find people here saying things like "it was exciting the past seasons". I used to get on debates here defending the transfer policy with people saying the football was terrible. So now people acting like it was exciting with Anderson and Cleverly in midfield and Ashley Young whom everyone wanted gone since his first game. Those were the exciting football players? What excitement was derived from Phil Jones playing in midfield. Great football was lost years before Moyes. The so called "United Way" is something that has been dead a long time

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Dan Young February 9, 2015

danny - your right. and going by minutes on the pitch this season falcao is much more deadly then rvp in front of goal. and he even contributes more chances to his team mates. not to say RVP should be ignored, i wouldnt be fully against telling them they will each simultaneously get starts each game and the one that comes out on top at the end of the season gets kept on. on the other hand if they both fail to score in 2/3/4 games then they both get dropped for rooney or wilson.

i wouldnt be entirely against making it public aswell to allow them to know exactly what the situation is and what they have to do. will definitely get them running in behind quite a bit more!

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dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT February 9, 2015

"Another self made speculation that LVG doesnt offer freedom. Jeez is this a manchester United blog or Arsenal blog. One draw we are bashing lvg left right and centre and then come and say he has been given an easy pass. Just because some of your current favorite Herrera has not been playing, lvg has been accussed of all the things."

That was what I was referring to. I was the one who made the comment about the players not playing freely and not having freedom to express themselves. You seem to think Van Gaal allows the players to express themselves. I strongly disagree on it.

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ashtheking February 9, 2015

I have said form very beginning. , rvp + falcao cannot work in tandem. LVG must find a solution to pick Herrera and drop one of the strikers.

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ashtheking February 9, 2015

Danny

I didn't see your comment, that comment was directed at marko who made that comment. Anyways for you LVG may not offer freedom but I don't agree that he doesn't allow his players to express themselves. It's upto players to prove themselves, he has given every player bar Herrera to express themselves.

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Dan Young February 9, 2015

ash - best solution?...

rafael - smalling - rojo - shaw
--------- herrera - blind
-------------- rooney
- di maria --------------- young
--------------- falcao

its not a 4-2-3-1 but a 4-3-3 attacking. means rooney is primarily a number 10 but he has alot more instructions as a midfielder then your standard number 10. if herrera advances he holds back, if di maria comes in field he can run into the space on the right etc.

iv been looking at the player stats of our attacking players this morning and these players are all the ones with the best performance stats this season (apart from young, but its out of him januzaj or possibly mata on that left side)

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Mirainashe February 9, 2015

As for why the performances suck right now. I have said this everytime. Wayne Rooney is pushing us backwards. Van Gaal is playing political games here. He definitely does not want drama in the dressing room in his first season. Imagine dropping Rooney from the team after saying the captain always plays. He trapped himself with his foolish statements. Foolish statement number 1 was back in September after a few games of Rooney and RvP upfront with Mata in the hole. It wasnt working out and he said "Rooney is not good enough upfront I prefer Falcao and RvP." He also said he would play Rooney in Mata's position and the latter was frozen out. The performances were still bad after this and when a combination of Rooney's suspension and Falcao's injuries brought Mata back into the fold Rooney suddenly came back a midfielder. Herrera who had been playing well and was developing a Xavi-Iniesta kind of telepathic understanding with Mata and had previously played well with Blind became the victim. There is still no logical football related reason why Rooney plays ahead of Herrera in midfield. We can't play a team with Di Maria,Rooney,RvP,Falcao at the same time. That is totally unbalanced combination. Made even worse by including Januzaj. If Rooney has to play no matter we can accept that. But two of the other big guns will have to make way. Either both RvP and Falcao or one of them with Di Maria. We need a proper playmaker behind the forwards and proper midfielders behind the playmaker.

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Dan Young February 9, 2015

rooney pushing us backwards and your screaming out that herreras the victim?

rooney as a midfielder

shots - 13
conversion rate - 23%
chance creation - 19
goals contributed (goals+assists) - 4

herrera as a midfielder

shots - 8
conversion rate - 25%
chance creation - 13
goals contributed - 5

yet again someone makes a statement as if its fact.

whilst i agree herrera is badly needed. for me we need both in a midfield 3.