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VIDEO: Chicharito and Van Persie's Goals vs Wigan

  • January 1, 2013

Scott Patterson

Scott is the editor of RoM and has a season ticket at Old Trafford. He started The Republik of Mancunia in March 2006. Follow @R_o_M on Twitter or @R_o_M7 on Instagram.

CONFIRMED LINE-UP: Wigan vs United
STATS: United’s Season So Far

129 Comments

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NBI Red Onion January 2, 2013
In terms of whether SAF will buy Sneijder, he surprised me bidding for RVP. He is always looking to strengthen if he sees value in the market. Let's see. But yeah, my bet would be he goes to Spurs if they can live with his wages, Arsenal won't break their wage structure, Liverpool have paid stupid money in the past so if the offload Coles £100k a week I wouldn't be surprised if they bid for Wes. I doubt City would buy him but you never know.
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samuel - united WE stand January 2, 2013
I understand where denton is coming from, i don't think he's particularly targeting young, he's stating the true facts that ashley young falls below the standards of wing men assembled at united over the years and no one can deny the scepticsm over his signing. At 27, young is at his peak, i wouldn't say he's had a shocking career but perhaps fall well below what people expected from a player of his experience. Looking at it from another angle, maybe expectation weighed on him is unjust if his ability can't back it up. He's a solid work man like winger, he'll never produce the spectacular and carries out his tactical defensive role well, fergie has always left space for these type of players and young, in a way has an important role to play as you may have world class players but you also require those willing to put in a shift. In brief, always felt young is decent and capable of producing quality but probably won't hit the heights of a world class player and i don't think that'll stop him forging a career here.
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samuel - united WE stand January 2, 2013
NBI - lampard is great at what he does as a goal scoring midfielder but i've always felt there are better all round central mid players out there in terms of controlling games and he's pushing into 36, won't paint a pretty picture on united's midfield in terms of improving, it certainly won't give other younger players the belief that they can break in, united fresh and improving players, i would rather see a petrucci, tunni, lingard, cole and any other signings scampering around old trafford and getting experience than an ex chelsea legend who wouldn't give a fuck. I don't think you can compare the owen thing, i think that's another fergie move of capturing a striker he's always admired, i don't think owen was ever going to start a lot of games.
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samuel - united WE stand January 2, 2013
NBI – lampard is great at what he does as a goal scoring midfielder but i’ve always felt there are better all round central mid players out there in terms of controlling games and he’s pushing into 36, won’t paint a pretty picture on united’s midfield in terms of improving, it certainly won’t give other younger players the belief that they can break in, united need fresh and improving players, i would rather see a petrucci, tunni, lingard, cole and any other signings scampering around old trafford and getting experience than an ex chelsea legend who wouldn’t give a fuck. I don’t think you can compare the owen thing, i think that’s another fergie move of capturing a striker he’s always admired, i don’t think owen was ever going to start a lot of games.
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dannysoya LOVES USAIN BOLT January 2, 2013
Ermm. I think we DEFINITELY need a defensive midfielder regardless of what happened at Wigan where we played well. In Europe against more technical teams the midfield's frailties will often be cruelly exposed. As for Ashley Young, He is very good defensively and he works hard all round for the team. One thing I don't get with him though is that he doesn't run at his defender like he used at Villa where he RIPPED LBs and RBs all over the country to fucking shreds. He settles for TOO MANY crosses that fail to beat the first man when he has the talent to get past that defender and put in a better ball. Also there was one chance today where after receiving the ball in space and doing ALL the hard work he decides to go down in the box under a VERY VERY soft challenge when he could have easily continued and scored. These things PISS me off about Young more than any other thing. He needs to be the Ashley Young he was at Aston Villa. That Ashley Young was devastating to watch. This one isn't.
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StatesideAussie January 2, 2013
Can't imagine we would take Lampard, even on a free. He will be 35 before the next season kicks off. What sort of message does that send? I'd rather see us try to grow Jones into that role. I know we've had that argument on here before -- many see him as a specialist centre-half. But he's not yet 21, which is too young to be painted into a corner. At that age, Drogba hadn't yet turned professional, and Patrice Evra was still a striker. At age 20, Bryan Robson was still struggling to establish himself as a first-choice player for West Brom. Rafael and TC are regulars for us now and I think most would agree that this is the season they have both come of age; yet both are a year or two older than Jones, and at Jones's current age, neither had proved themself a first-team choice.

Too many fans are too quick to look at an emerging youngster and declare him not good enough -- especially in those areas of the game that are the most difficult to develop: decision making, and positional play. Those are the areas that require the most development through actual on-field experience -- and running around in the reserves doesn't cut it. (For those who follow baseball, it's like the step up from the minor leagues to the majors: it seems like a small step, but in reality, it's a huge fucking brick wall. Very few can climb over it and most of those who do are quickly thrown back.) Too many people ask, "Is he good enough?", when they should be asking, "Can he become good enough? Does he have the raw material that can be developed over time?"

And I think Jones does. He is strong and confident on the ball, tackles well, and moves forward with ease. His positional play mightn't be "good enough" yet but he's no mug either. He has the physical attributes, and his athletic abilities are in no doubt. For me, he's shown enough to say he's got the potential to be a damn good box-to-box midfielder, and the rest of what he needs can only be developed through sufficient time on the field with the first team. And it may take a couple of years, but that's OK, because I don't think we are in urgent need. Carrick is at the peak of his powers and although he's a very different type of player to Jones, he is not in urgent of replacement. Fletcher's day is not done yet, either.
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20LEgend January 2, 2013
@denton
Personally mate I don't have a problem when someone criticizes our players "reasonably". The problem is very few out there actually do that. Youre one of the few in my opinion

Regards to Ashley young, I agree he is probably not as good as nani or Antonio. But Ashley has something nani doesn't. Effort. Even on his worst days young will work his socks off, and will at the very least provide great defensive cover. The same thing which Antonio does. Nani doesn't have this and is hated by the "fans" for this reason ( same goes for Berba), but he more than makes it up with his absolute flair.

One more point I would like to reiterate is that it's not just talent or brilliance that the manager looks for. Young is a sore-loser, gives his all to the cause, and doesn't whine like most players nowadays if he is used sparingly(which is a vital quality in my book). And when he is on song, he is one of premier leagues best wingers. So I would still say that he is highly important to the united cause.

@daniel88 : I think it's unwise to put down carrick by comparing him to ws. Michael was always much much better defensively and he would definitely run close, if not match, sneijders attacking threat IF he was given the same free role and abundance of talent around him at national level.
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Costas January 2, 2013
United need cover for Carrick. I've said this for the last 12 months at least. I don't think we've realized how lucky we've been that he's stayed injury free. Names like Sneijder and Lampard don't fit that description. Fletcher could, but having played just a few minutes during the entire festive period, it makes one wonder how much we can rely on him. To be honest, as sad as it sounds, it feels like Fergie is keeping him around out of generosity.
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Ash January 2, 2013
Daniel88 says
"Cleverley = sloppy, he is not good enough."

Really. I thought he has been our most improved players this season. I don't know what game are you watching if you comment like this about a promising player. Cleverly is developing into a decent midfielder. If he starts scoring more goals then nothing like it. Iniesta who is one of the best midfielders now was also not a world beater at 23. He was struggling but he used to play regularly at barca. I am not saying clevs could be like iniesta but given the chance he could have the same impact. I rate tom very high and I feel he has a great future here. And pls don't compare him with scholesy because matching scholes is very tough.
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andromeda January 2, 2013
@Costas

I agree with you on Fletcher things, I think Fergie is keeping him around out of compassion and respect for the lad.He has done a good job for us in the last years he spent at united, he was a good servant and a selfless player, he has got the typical united DNA and blood.

And to be honest as I am working in the field of Medicine as a General practitioner, I find it utterly difficult for the lad to make a regular first team return, Ulcerative Colitis is extremely bad ailment, that is hard to be treated and cured in the first place.the patient usually have multiple ulcers invading the inner portion of Colon that almost always end up with bleeding and malabsorption and maldigestion hence an ongoing dehydration and loss of weight plus generalized body weakness that almost keep you out of the occupation at least for a long time.but personally I think he deserves to be part of our team, at least he can act as a motivator for our youngsters or an assistant coach.I really love him and hope the best of recovery:))
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parryheid January 2, 2013
My information has turned out to be absolute shite (kinda expected)So I think I will try and keep my gub shut.
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samuel - united WE stand January 2, 2013
Stateside - united would be failing jones if he continues that midfield role. It has nothing to do with game time, he's nust not a specialists of that role, central mid requires a lot of attributes which aren't all based on brute strenght and athleticsm. Jones has played centre mostly throughout his career, sam allardyce used him occasionally in midfield to do a tactical job but i feel his attributes should be refined into the centre half role. Yes, i agree with your logic of positioning e.t.c comes with more game time and experience, i'm a patient observer in terms of seeing potential developing but i also have to be realistic, moving jones around without a fixed position even at this early stage could affect him in the long run. I think he needs to keep learning from experienced players like rio and vida and try emulate, if not surpass them. He has the potential but at centre half. He's not a midfielder or a full back but due to his mobility and enthusiasm, he can carry out those roles. His versatility has to be commended but he also has to get the best out of his potential and for me, that will be through regular game time in central of defence. At this moment, he has rawness that needs ironing out and in time as you say, hopefully he becomes as good a player as he can be.
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Costas January 2, 2013
@andromeda

Thanks for the info. It's what I've been worried about this whole time. No doubt, fate dealt him a cruel hand. Don't get me wrong, I love Fletch as much as anyone. It's just depressing to see him involved in such a limited fashion. He seemed to be getting more involved in October and November but fell completely off the radar in December. I hope there weren't any more complications to his condition.

I agree that it's great to have him around the team, but we could do with another defensive midfielder imo.
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fergie is the boss January 2, 2013
Daniel88 - when you start thinking WS is better than all our CM players, then your comments really cannot be taken serious, go back to fantasy land and keep picking names for your team
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denton davey January 2, 2013
Samuel @ 11:29: "united would be failing jones if he continues that midfield role."

I'm with StateSideAussie on this.

MrJones has ALL the attributes that this squad needs for a really powerful box-to-box midfielder. Sure, he's somewhat reckless (or headstrong) but that's actually more of a problem in a central defender than in the box-to-box midfielder. Besides, he's still incredibly young - not even 20, I think. Just look how RedRafa has "matured" in that regard and he's still just 22. Nick Powell is another kid who looks to have a bright future with UTD but who is still "raw" and needs experience and seasoning it the ways of top-flight footie.

How quickly things change, eh ? For a while, it seemed like Paul Pogba and Ryan Tunnicliffe were going to be at the heart of the next generation's midfield. Now it looks like Tunnicliffe has been over-hyped while Pogba decided that he wanted to cash in quickly rather than "letting the money find him".
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BayoRed January 2, 2013
Suprising that some can still slate players after such a good run and after such good perfomances. Tom gave an excellent display against Westbrom, he is 23 and will only get better. I may be watching the games differently coz I see no reason to slate young. Yes he could have been more accurate with some passes but I was also impressed with his game against Westbrom. Were it not for Ben Forster , he deserved to be on the score sheet. The own goal was his assist anywhere. Sometimes there is really no need to look for negatives.

We are winning, we have a terrific squad, we have young players with time & room for imoprovement. Enjoy it!
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five January 2, 2013
The one reason Ashley Young dissapoints me is because as someone stated above at Aston Villa he was fucking immense, he beat defenders, he scored free kicks, his corners were accurate everything that hasn't happened for him at United, he joins United and he transforms into a work-man winger while we all appreciate his work-ethic it's hard to forget how he delivered at Villa and we have seen glimpses of those performances(Arsenal 8-2 and also against Tottenham away last season) and he needs to step it up and bring those performances back
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denton davey January 2, 2013
BayoRed @ 13:47: "Were it not for Ben Forster , he deserved to be on the score sheet. The own goal was his assist anywhere. "

But if my auntie had bollocks, she'd be my uncle. That's about equivalent to the logic that WestBrom's keeper kept AshleyYoung off the score sheet. AY had three open shots at goal and didn't get one past the keeper - and these were three chances when he was free in the penalty box with only the keeper to beat.

About the "own goal" - on first look it seems that his pass was going to be turned in by one of the strikers but if you can get a second chance to view it then you'll see that the ball's most likely destination was through the box as the two on-rushing strikers were both "fronted" by defenders.

Some guys can make the step up from a mid-table EPL club - or even a second division side - but others find that the requirements for playing with better players, at a bigger club, with more important fixtures is just one-step-too-far. I have a colleague at work who is a long-suffering Aston Villa fan and he's told me over and over again to wait for the quality in AshleyYoung's game to bubble up to the surface. I've waited long enough - what's become apparent is that being a big fish in a small pond is a very different affair from being a big fish in a big pond. Aston Villa was an AshleyYoung-sized pond !
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wayne January 2, 2013
denton that's just not true because as others have pointed out the bigger the game the better Young has played so that knocks your theory all to shit.I've been through a few player rating sights from yesterday Young is getting steady 6 to 7's just like most other players one even made a comment that Young has made a major contribution to Utd over the last 6 weeks
There has to come a time when you realize your assessment is because that's what you want to see and not really the truth,i find it very strange how you single players out constantly just rip them apart and don't see their contribution to a team, bottom line mate Sir Alex likes him and plays him,Young brings plenty to the table
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denton davey January 2, 2013
Wayne @ 16:56: "There has to come a time when you realize your assessment is because that’s what you want to see and not really the truth"

This is getting tedious - for BOTH of us, no doubt.

However, let's just stick with "facts" - four point-blanks shots from inside the box + nothing.

The other day, one terrific pass that Chicharito couldn't/didn't head home - otherwise dross.

Those "facts" may be "what I want to see and not really the truth" but unless you can come up with some other relevant "facts" that I don't see how my "theory" is knocked "all to shit".

This brings us back to the question of "United quality" - this was a contentious point in my discussions about Dimmy and, so it appears, now again with Ashley Young. The expectation is that a player has to provide end-product; from what I've seen Dimmy did so on some occasions but mostly he didn't; I think that the same applies to AshleyYoung.

When Dimmy missed those two chances (which I thought were "sitters" but some others thought that I wasn't giving Joe Hart credit for a very good save on the first one) in the FACup semi-final at the beginning of May, 2011 it seemed that SAF lost patience with him and didn't give him a spot on the bench for the CL final against Barcelona and then played him very irregularly in the 2011/2012 season.

Does the same logic apply to AshleyYoung ? He has, after all, missed four sitters in the last three matches. So, I think so; however, he's continued to get picked which can only mean one of two things: either, SAF disagrees with my assessment (and agrees with you and the "experts" who are giving Ashley Young marks of "6" or "7" for his recent efforts; or, the injury to Nani and AV7's lack of form means that the drop-dead-date is being postponed. Obviously, you like the first alternative; and, equally, I'm partial to the second explanation.

There's nothing more to be gained from going back-and-forth with our opinions/explanations; time will tell if you're right - or I am. In the meanwhile, we can both be happy that TheLads are FIRST with a superior goal-difference.
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mara January 2, 2013
Denton davey...
Pogba except the money wanted to play. SAF s way is not always the best way...sometimes he is wrong. Time will show us that he was wrong about the kid. Some players develop while they waiting on the bench, some not. You have to accept that people are different.
If he stayed than he is good, if decide to go than he is a jerk. Lampard is cunt because he plays for Chelski, when he comes here he will be great. Very logic...
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StatesideAussie January 2, 2013
Lampard isn't a cunt because he plays at Chelsea. He plays at Chelsea because he's a cunt. Subtle difference. Anyway, as I said, too old for us. We bought RVP at age 29, and that was already a "violation" of our supposed "age policy".

As for Ashley Young, I thought that last season he was our best, and most consistent, crosser of the ball. It was the one part of his game that I had genuine respect for, especially given that TonyV and Nani were both off the boil in this regard. But this season, Young's crosses have slipped. I remember when his transfer was confirmed. I was totally unerwhelmed by the announcement. Then (if memory serves) he had a bright start, and I revised my opinion. Based on what I've seen this season, I'd have to revise that back.

But then again: he has shown he can play better, so I'm prepared to cut him some slack.
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King Eric January 2, 2013
I would feel sick seeing Lampard in a United shirt. Nice bloke but a Rentboy. Talking of Chelsea I am shit scared of them now they have Carlton Cole a like Ba. Ba and Torres. Dog shit.

Fletcher will play on Saturday.

Denton. Never had a problem with you mate but you never rated Carrick!
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mara January 2, 2013
If anyone mention Young again..im gonna kill him :-)
Lampard thing...was point that in big clubs in UK we dont like is god players and maybe they come to our club and show in good light like RVP...so it would be stupid to say that someone is jerk because he play in other club and than he comes to us, play fabulous like RVP and than we praise him...
StatesideAussie...nice said about Lampard :-)
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King Eric January 3, 2013
Mara. A difference pal. RVP is at his peak. Lampard isn't. I don't mind Arsenal. I detest fucking Chelsea. If he isn't good enough for a team 14 points behind us, why is he good enough for us?
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mara January 3, 2013
King Eric you dont read my posts carefully...i agree about Lampard...just say maybe some player will come to us and play ggreat..but day before we called him jerk because he played in club we dont like...
Lampard was just a name that represent someone we dont like, from club we dont like...he was metaphore...
I would rather hear Citeh lost points than Chelski...
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denton davey January 3, 2013
King Eric @ 22:08: "Denton. Never had a problem with you mate but you never rated Carrick!"

I'm not sure that that's exactly right - my issue with MC16 stemmed from his partnership with TheGingerNinja. BUT you are mostly right - there was a time, about 24 months ago when Michael Carrick was really pretty dour and boring. On the other hand, before the 2008 CL final I rarely paid him any attention so it wasn't a matter or rating or not-rating him because I was beguiled by the excitement of the attacking whirligig.

In the next couple of years, when MC16 was played alongside Paul Scholes there was a timidity in his game; he seemed to be awed by his surrounding and retreated into a shell, passing sideways and backwards a lot.

Now that TheGreatScholes is in the twilight of his career - and his physical ability to compete - MC16 gets to play more with YoungTom and (especially) Anderson whose foot-speed and generally more aggressive style seems to have "unshackled" Carrick.

Thinking about my response I wondered if MC16 played with Scholes or DarrenFletcherinho in the matches with Roma and Inter a few years ago in the CL; those were his two most expressive games in terms of dominating the pitch, sweeping all before him, and passing the ball with an expansive vision.
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MarkoWire January 3, 2013
Amazing performance From United RVP is an Awesome signing. Just hope he avoids injury. Also Chico is coming on well and starting to find his form again. It was nice to see us come away without giving away and goals too. Lets hope this sticks..
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Chicha January 3, 2013
Chicharito is much of a penalty box player these days - always in the right place at the right time. Surprising thing is really how prolific he was from outside the box while at Chivas
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